Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site kontron.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!voder!kontron!cramer From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Television coverage and censorship in Canada (in net.columbia??) Message-ID: <580@kontron.UUCP> Date: Thu, 6-Mar-86 11:57:51 EST Article-I.D.: kontron.580 Posted: Thu Mar 6 11:57:51 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 9-Mar-86 21:13:14 EST References: <6396@utzoo.UUCP> <514@kontron.UUCP> <814@alberta.UUCP> Distribution: net.politics Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA Lines: 87 > In article <12138@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> desj@brahms.UUCP (David desJardins) writes: > >In article <11544@watnot.UUCP> jjboritz@watnot.UUCP (Jim Boritz) writes: > >>I personally have a hard time saying that it was wrong to prosecute him. > >>What would you do if someone said that world war II never happened. Hitler > >>never existed, and never tried to take over the world. > > > > I would ignore him, since I know that he is wrong. > > > > You and I may be educated people, with minds of our own. You have to remember > that there are more people out there that will believe almost anything that > they are told, than there are educated people that will ignore such comments. > So you may well ignore him, but your opinion does not reflect upon the > the opinion of the majority. Now don't go and tell me that everyone one you > have talked to agrees with you, and that they would ignore him also. I am > talking about those people with average educations. Those that never went to > college. The average american. By going to university or college you > have already placed yourself way above the average. > The average American has gone to college. (Average number of years of education is this country is now 12.7, I believe.) The elitism in the statement above is really nauseating. You and I are smart enough to distinguish truth from falsity, but the MASSES -- they're just not bright enough. The more rationalization I see on this network for suppressing free speech, the less confidence I have in the benefits of a college education -- it seems to make people more tolerant of totalitarian approachs. > > The Constitution says "freedom of speech." This is what I believe in. > >Without conditions. > > > > -- David desJardins > > :-{) The constitution also allows groups like the KKK to exist, as well as the > American Nazi Party. > And the various communist factions as well. This is called "freedom". Freedom to go along with the majority view isn't freedom -- it's totalitarianism. > Aparently their are laws in the US which will allow you to prosecute someone > that violates or breaches or is a threat to national security. > Rather narrowly defined, though. That's why the Progressive was allowed to publish their article about H-bomb building. > I also do not believe in censorship, but in my message I described how I > would choose between the lesser of two evils. > > Asides from this I would like to mention some things that are different in the > Canadian and American systems of justice. > > In the US you tend to lean very heavily towards protection of the accused, and > freeedom of the individual. In fact you lean in this direction so heavily, > that there are cases in which guilty persons have been set free because the > police violated the rights of this individual. > I make no apologies for this. Better than 10 guilty go free, than one innocent man go to prison. Besides, criminals seldom commit one crime -- if they don't go to prison on the first crime, they will on the second or the third. > In Canada we lean towards the protection of society as a whole, and we place > less emphasis on the rights of the accused that we do on the rights of > society. The arm of the law in Canada is much heavier in Canada than it is > in the US. The biggest problem is that most Canadians know more about the > American Legal System than they know about the Canadian Leagl System. I > myself was one of these, luckily I have been told or taught what the > differences are. Canada now has a constitution of its own. Could you believe > that we existed for over a hundred years without a constitution. Imagine that. > :-) Somehow we haven't gone to hell in a handbasket, we haven't become > socialists or communists or Nazi's. We did not have 'Freedom of Speech' as > a right. Yet we had it somehow. We had no CIA or FBI or NSC . When we got > our constitution though we soon after got the CSA (Civilian Security Agency) > They are probably not related, but sometimes I wonder. > > Jim Boritz > Your comments above about the Canadian legal system leaning towards society's protection, and less emphasis on the rights of the accused, would seem to argue that you needed more protections.