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From: gdf@mtuxn.UUCP (G.FERRAIOLO)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: In the Name of God
Message-ID: <725@mtuxn.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 11-Mar-86 13:13:57 EST
Article-I.D.: mtuxn.725
Posted: Tue Mar 11 13:13:57 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 15-Mar-86 05:25:24 EST
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>Guy Ferraiolo writes:

>>Where were these people when the Tibetan, Cambodians,
>>Ukranians, etc., etc., etc., were being slaughtered?  

>Since the American religious groups protesting US policy in Central
>America are acting on the assumption that the US is a democratic
>society in which it is possible to influence government policy by
>popular pressure and appeals to morality, it follows that Mr.
>Ferraiolo believes that the governments of the Soviet Union and China
>and the Khmer Rouge are likewise democratic and responsive to
>popular pressure and moral appeals even from religious groups in the
>US, to say nothing of their own citizens.  So I think Mr. Ferraiolo
>deserves a Hero of Labor medal for arguing that communist countries
>are democratic and responsive to human rights appeals.

Nice try.  Because Cambodia, China and the USSR are not democratic,
they are exempt from criticism? I'm sure you feel Chile is not democratic,
therefore no one should say anything, right? 

I feel that if you want to make _moral_ statements, you should
make those statements without regard to who is committing the 'wrong'.
If you oppose all US actions against the Communists and NEVER speak
out against the incredible crimes of the Communists, that is hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy, to me, means making statements that _appear_ to be based
on moral or ethical grounds, but a really based on political or economic
grounds.  I think that anyone who is concerned enough about 
human rights to participate in a demonstration has the responibilty to
inform themselves of the actual situation with respect to human rights.

>>Frankly, it doesn't matter to me how self-righteous people are, what
>>kind of religious positions they hold, or how hypocritical their
>>rhetoric is.

>Comments like this indicate the futility of discussion with a
>close-minded person, whose mind is already made up and who knows the
>answers already.  I guess anyone who disagrees with Mr. Ferraiolo is
>self-evidently hypocritical.

No, people who protest against one side only are hypocritical. I am
aware of some facts that not everyone knows, the Ukraine for one, that
influence my point of view.  It doesn't make me closed minded. 

>Net.politics.dogma is too much a forum for confident assertions by
>people who believe that their thought processes are infallible, and
>too little a forum for reasoned discussion by those who know that the
>truth is usually elusive.  But I suppose this is inherent in the
>nature of a computer network.
>-- 
>Richard Carnes, ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes

Since this group is dominated by postings against the policies of the US,
I wanted to make a few points.  Incidentally, I don't believe that
my thought processes are infallible, but if you want to change my
mind you'll need at least some 'reasoned discussion'.

By the way, was it just that you didn't like my posting, or did you
have some facts that disproved my claims?

Finally, I do admit to being closed minded in one regard.  I will
never accept the legitimacy of a self-appointed group which arrogates
to itself the right to do _anything_ it feels necessary to accomplish
its aims.  That is (as far as I know it) the definition of a Leninist
party.

Guy