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Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!ittatc!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!qantel!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020
From: mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: Slave labor built Siberian pipeline
Message-ID: <83@gilbbs.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 16-Mar-86 01:14:53 EST
Article-I.D.: gilbbs.83
Posted: Sun Mar 16 01:14:53 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 18-Mar-86 20:15:33 EST
References: <1685@decwrl.DEC.COM>
Organization: Gil's Place, Santa Rosa CA
Lines: 75

In article <1685@decwrl.DEC.COM>, mahoney@bartok.DEC writes:
> >   IN any case, thh whole point here is that while the Soviets may take things
> >to greater extremes, I cannot think of anything that the Soviets do, to their
> >own citizens, as well as to other nations, that we ourselves in the US do not
> >do, to some extent or another.
>     Mr Keller I take great execption to this.  Tell me the last person who
> was internally exiled in the US without a trial.  Tell me the last person
> who disappeared without a trace in the US because of a government order to
> make them disappear.  How many people are placed in Mental wards because
> they disagree with the state.  Tell me what happens to people who decide to
> emigrate from the US?
> 

   I wish I had the references here, but I don't, so I am going to approach this
in a dangerous fashion:  1)  no internal exile or disappearances that I know of
have occurred.  People may choose to emigrate from this nation at will (with
certain minor exceptions, in terms of destination).  HOWEVER:  it is quite well
documented that many people wind up in mental institutions because they 
"disagree with the state".  NO, not as many as in Russia.  No, they are most
likely not treated as badly (then again, I **KNOW** certain things about the
way some mental institutions are run...EC "therapy" used as a threat, to insure
specified behavious patterns, etc.).

>    There is a major difference besides extremes between the US and Soviet
> Union.  The US constitution guarentees basic human rights.  There are bounds
> on what the US government can and can not do. These bounds do not exist in
> the Soviet Union and never have. There is freedom in the US there is no
> freedom in the Soviet Union it is as simple as that.
> 
   Yes, there are bounds to what the US govenrment can do.  Check out the recent
activities of the Reagan adminsitration, openly aimed at reducing those bounds.

>    (on dealing with other nations I tend to agree.  but I have yet to
>     see what happened in the Phillipeans happen in a client state of
>     the Soviet Union)
> 
o
   Good point.  I should have mode my statement more clear, I *DID* mean to 
refer to foriegn affairs actions, I simply failed to clarfiy my intent.
Another good score on the Phillipines issue.  True enough, no Soviet client
state that I am aware of has similarly achieved "liberation".

> 
>    Brian Mahoney


    However, I have said this som many times before, and I will continue to say
it:  I don't **CARE** what the Soviets, or the Chinese Communists, or anyone
else on this planet does.  *I* am only responsible for what *MY* country does,
as I only have the power to affect my countrys policies (through my vote, and
through my freedom and responsibility to lobby).


   As I have stated before:  I believe that no other nation on the face of the
earth has a better system of governance that the U.S. does.  In general, I am
proud to be an American.  At times, I am deeply shamed to be an American.
I insist that as an American, it is my duty to dissent, when I see my nation
involved in questionable or dangerous activities or policies.

   Lastly, I dislike seeing arguments tot he effect that I have failed to
critisize the "bad guys".  What good would it do me?  Moreover, somehow, such
arguments sound amazingly like the young child who cries "But Molly did it too!"
when caught and punished.  (yes, I **KNOW** I made this same statement in an
article posted last night...maybe it bears repeating)

-- 

====================================

Disclaimer:  I hereby disclaim any and all responsibility for disclaimers.

tom keller
{ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020

(* we may not be big, but we're small! *)