Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 Tandy Xenix 02/17/86; site gilbbs.UUCP
Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!hplabs!qantel!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020
From: mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: In the Name of God
Message-ID: <89@gilbbs.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 17-Mar-86 23:54:45 EST
Article-I.D.: gilbbs.89
Posted: Mon Mar 17 23:54:45 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 20-Mar-86 18:10:42 EST
References: <1680@ihlpg.UUCP> <11000127@uiucdcsb>
Organization: Gil's Place, Santa Rosa CA
Lines: 82
Summary: personal attacks of this nature meaningless in terms of enlightenment

In article <11000127@uiucdcsb>, vanzandt@uiucdcsb.UUCP writes:
> 
> Source of info on assertion: "Borge and compatriots traveling to USSR
> and praising them for Afghanistan invasion"
> 
> 	My source is quotation from Humberto Belli, former Sandanista
> and former editor of the Op-Ed page of La Prensa, at a recent discussion
> on Sandanista ideology at the Univ. of Illinois.

   Alright, you were asked for your source, you gave it.  For all I know, it
   is accurate, but then again, you offer no references.  Perhaps you mis-
   interpreted Mr. Belli?  Was Mr. Belli privy to all of the actions and
   opinions of the Sandinista leadership?  He is a "former Sandinista". Just
   what does this mean?  Why?  Was he ejected, and if so, for what reasons?
   The point here is not to disparage your quote, or your source.  I am simply
   arguing that your source is no more, and no less, reliable or believable
   than Mr. Sevener's sources, which many of you continue to disparage.

> 
> Regardless, Tim, your buddies are avowed communists and have espoused this
> for a long time...

   ****** F O U L ******   In the first place, *NOTHING* Mr. Sevener has 
   said on this newsgroup could in any way be construed as a statement of
   brotherhood with the Sandinista regime.  Nor has anything he said here
   justified any such assumptions on your part.  This is an underhanded
   attempt to damage Mr. Sevener's personal reputation, apparently motivated
   by your inability to successfully attack his points.  You attempt not
   only to imply that Mr. Sevener is in some way personally involved with
   the Sandinista regime, you further invoke "guilt by association" to
   imply that this being the case, Mr. Sevener is (or should be considered
   to be) a communist.

   In my opinion, you owe Mr. Sevener a direct apaology, and a public retraction`  of your accusations.

>  (I guess this would be ok if socialism worked, but it doesn't. Also, the
>   Government of National Reconstruction has failed to acheive the goals of
>   the revolution - or maybe it never planned to.)

   And you are prepared to gaurantee that a terrorist organization lead by the
   former leaders of the Samoza secret police will install a free, open
   democracy, is that it?  It is interesting that you claim the current
   Nicarauguan government has failed to achieve its goals.  Not that I don't
   agree with that portion of your assesment, I do.  What I fail to see is the
   significance of this in terms of the present discussion.  Certainly, 
   regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the validity of American
   involvement, you can see that it would be virtually impossible for any
   regime, regardless of how well intentioned, to achieve the goals of the
   revolution while under constant, vicious attack by the Contras.  Again,
   I would not go sa far as to claim that *ALL* of the failures, and *ALL*
   of the mis-deeds of the Sandinista regime (oh, my, an anti-Contra who
   admits the Sandinistas are not great?!?  What'll they think of next?)
   are the direct result of this harassment.  But many of them most
   obviously are. 

   Moreover, you can hardly claim that America is not an active participant
   in the military (terrorist) harassment of the current govenrment.  Minig
   of the harbors does not fit anywhere else in my book except under "act of
   war".  This doesn't even involve the massive aid we provide to the Contras.
   "Humanitarian" indeed!  Since when are guns, ammunition and jeeps 
   "humanitarian aid".
> 
> Lonnie.

   The fact is that while those arguing against aid to the Contra terrorists
   may not know *ALL* the facts, the fact that they so argue does *NOT* in
   any way associate them with any communist or communist sypathetic group.
   It *IS* possible to disagree with the actions of this nation in its persuit
   of "communism" without being either a communist or a communist sympathizer.
   But of course, you folks won't want to see that, because you only want
   to defend *YOUR* kind of freedom..the freedom to see things *YOUR* way!

-- 

====================================

Disclaimer:  I hereby disclaim any and all responsibility for disclaimers.

tom keller
{ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020

(* we may not be big, but we're small! *)