Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site mtuxn.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!houxm!mtuxo!mtuxn!gdf From: gdf@mtuxn.UUCP (G.FERRAIOLO) Newsgroups: net.politics,net.religion Subject: Re: In the Name of God Message-ID: <724@mtuxn.UUCP> Date: Tue, 11-Mar-86 12:51:49 EST Article-I.D.: mtuxn.724 Posted: Tue Mar 11 12:51:49 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 15-Mar-86 05:25:04 EST References: <1680@ihlpg.UUCP> <707@mtuxn.UUCP>, <88@cad.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Holmdel NJ Lines: 67 Xref: lsuc net.politics:3632 net.religion:755 >In article <707@mtuxn.UUCP>, gdf@mtuxn.UUCP (G.FERRAIOLO) writes: >> I see, even if people espouse policies that are very helpful to the >> Communists, pointing out that they are helpful to the Communists is >> a great moral wrong. Where were these people when the Tibetan, Cambodians, >> Ukranians, etc., etc., etc., were being slaughtered? Frankly, >> it doesn't matter to me how self-righteous people are, what kind of >> religious positions they hold, or how hypocritical their rhetoric is. >> >> "IN THE NAME OF GOD", what vast hypocrisy. Will it never end? >> >> Guy >You conveniently refer to Tibet, Cambodia and the Ukraine. At least >in Tibet and Cambodia, I am convinced that atrocities, killings and >mass movement of populations took place. (I know nothing about the >Ukraine, but I also know that the U.S. shares the guilt for what >happened to Cambodia. Remember Kissinger and his saturation bombing?) Tricky ol' me. After all, if the Communists would refrain from genocide, I'd find it less 'convenient' to criticise them. The US has responsibility for failing to defeat the Communists in Southeast Asia. The Communists bear all the responsibility for what they did after the war was over. Incidentally, they weren't 'driven' to murder 1/3 of the population by anything the US did. Many of the policies the Khymer Rouge implemented were described years before in the writings of their leaders. I think it is interesting that the US is at fault for what it does, _and_ for what the Communists do. Makes a lot of sense, right? >However, you also conveniently forget El Salvador, Chile, South Africa >and South Korea, to name a few of the U.S.'s staunch allies with rather >colorful resumes. They are staunch anti-communists, good capitalists >and the very model of the kind of democracy some in the U.S. would >like to export to the world, the model Reagan is bent on reintroducing >into Nicaragua. Wait a minute! I didn't say that I liked the current governments of South Africa or Chile. I said that it was hypocritical to complain about what anti-communists do and not about what the Communists do, especially since in many cases the Communist violations of human rights are much more serious. It is also wrong to lump all of those four countries together. Although S. Korea isn't totally democratic, it is vastly more democratic than any Communist country. Got a lot better standard of living and better health statistics than, for instance, N. Korea. El Salvador is gettting better. Also, notice that the stupendous Communist murders don't occur during the war, but _after_ the war is over. It is one thing to lay about with a heavy hand during a war (or a civil war). It's quite another thing to exterminate people by the millions after you have won. Re: The Ukraine. The reason you don't know about what happened in the Ukraine in 1929-1931 is that the so-called moralists who are so concerned with human rights don't want to let you know that during those years the Communist Party of the Soviet Union created an artificial famine in the Ukraine. The usual estimate is that 6 to 7 million people starved to death. Incidentally, the Ukraine produced plenty of grain during those years. It was stolen by the CP-SU. Never heard of it, eh? I guess that's the problem I'm talking about. If everyone knew about this, it might make people think that the USSR is a dangerous country. Of course I'm a fascist. Guy