Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site reed.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!ittatc!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!tektronix!reed!purtell From: purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) Newsgroups: net.religion.christian Subject: Re: "spiritual gifts" (Taken from "Hearing God's Voice") Message-ID: <2798@reed.UUCP> Date: Sun, 16-Mar-86 00:21:29 EST Article-I.D.: reed.2798 Posted: Sun Mar 16 00:21:29 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 18-Mar-86 23:11:04 EST References: <2322@burdvax.UUCP> Reply-To: purtell@reed.UUCP (Lady Godiva) Distribution: na Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon Lines: 116 In article <328@aero.ARPA> homeier@aero.UUCP (Peter Homeier) writes: >Dear Elizabeth, > > I really enjoyed your article, and felt that it raised a lot of >godd points, where there is likely to be a good deal of discussion. >I think you had a lot of courage, and I hope that you don't get stung >for your openness! Thanks - I'm interested to see how it goes. >Elizabeth, what you bring up is the whole world of spiritual experience. >There is so much here that needs to be sorted out. First, I believe that >not all spiritual experiences are from God, but some are from the enemy, >Satan. Such things as witchcraft, sorcery, astrology, ESP, consulting the >dead, psychic powers, astral projection, and contacting spirits are >condemned heavilly in the Bible as being works of the devil. They are not >just called sins, they are called "abominations". Yes, and I basically agree. I'm just wondering if people think that they are things that you definitely receive, like the holy spirit, or if they are just parts of us that we are born with and some are born with more potential in certain areas than others, some learn more about these things than others, and different people choose to use these abilities for different purposes. I'm also curious as to why you include ESP (I assume that by that you mean the ability to read others thoughts, if only in spurts) and astral projection as being works of the devil. >I was really interested when you mentioned empathy. This is a gift that the >Lord has given me, beginning late last year. Now I'm curious, why do you think that the Lord gave you this gift last year, as opposed to your having it all along but not using it? I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just wondering. I've been an empath, both physically and emotionally, for as long as I can remember, well before I was a Christian. And I know one person in particular who I know is an empath and also an agnostic. These are some of the reasons that I believe that empathy is something that some (not all) people are born with and some use more fully than others. I'm the only physical empath that I know and with one exception I'm the strongest emotional empath that I know. But then, this isn't really something that I and my friends discuss very much, so that is a rather limited claim. >I use it while ministering to >people in prayer. The Spirit has been placing their sufferring, their >emotions of fear, loneliness, disgust, hatred, etc. on me for a while, and >I feel the full weight of them. This can last for some time, depending on >the severity of the emotional problem, while I am in my own body feeling the >hurts that the person themselves may long ago have repressed and hidden from >their concious mind. But through this release, the Lord brings the pain >first to me, and then I give it to Him, and the person I am praying for >receives healing in that area. It is an intensely powerful experience, and >as much a blessing for me to minister it as it is for the person I am >praying for. I like this. It's pretty much exactly how I do it. I've found that there are two ways of helping people. (Being an empath means that not only can you feel their pain but you can usually do something about it.) One is to remove the pain and give it to God. The other is to be a channel for God to heal them. The latter is the only one that I use for physical pain. It's sort of a difference between taking out the bad (in the first method) and putting in the good (in the second one.) But that's a very bad explanation so don't hold me to it too literally. >This gift, I am absolutely certain, comes from God the Holy Spirit. Maybe. But I tend to believe that it is something that people are born with and can be used for God and is almost always a good thing to have. (I can't think of a reason why it would be bad for someone to be an empath, but I'm not so certain about that as to not leave myself room.) >Believe me, there is no way I could do this or turn it on myself. It is God >working through me in the power of His Spirit who does the healing. There >is nothing so obvious to me as the fact that it is not I who accomplish it, >it is God. Therefore I must say that I do not believe that this comes just >as a natural part of being human. It is most definitely a gift from God. But in a sense all of our 5 senses are a gift from God. And since I do know agnostics (and atheists) who have this gift, to various degrees, I can't believe that it is only for Christians. I do believe, however, that God works through atheists and agnostics, so in a roundabout way I may agree with you. >Now perhaps you had a different meaning for the word "empathy". If you just >meant the common human sympathy or understanding, then sure, lots of people >have that in themselves. But if you meant the power gift of healing people, >then no, that gift only comes from God or the enemy. For the enemy tries to >counterfeit everything that is found in God's Kingdom. No - I think we have the same meaning in mind. But healing is not the same as empathy. Empathy is feeling the pain, healing is doing something about it. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand. >But I also believe that not every believer has this gift of empathy from >God. So I have a particular ministry, to pray for people for healing, just >as others have ministries like evangelism or teaching, for which they have >been given other gifts from God. This way we all fit together into a Body, >where each part does its part in contributing to the whole. I agree entirely. >I know how you feel about these things and "common sense". Crazy, isn't >it? But when it's in the Lord, it's fun, and it's safe, and it's good. >Just make sure it's in the Lord. And the best guides for this are > 1. The Bible, the Word of God > 2. The Holy Spirit > 3. Your brethren, particularly your pastoral authority. A very tentative yes. (I don't believe in pastoral authority.) Share and enjoy - elizabeth g. purtell (Lady Godiva)