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From: de@moscom.UUCP (Dave Esan)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: moderated halachic mailing list
Message-ID: <660@moscom.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 7-Mar-86 13:37:08 EST
Article-I.D.: moscom.660
Posted: Fri Mar  7 13:37:08 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 11-Mar-86 00:15:11 EST
References: <1696@mtgzz.UUCP>
Organization: MOSCOM Corp, E Rochester, NY, USA
Lines: 63

[reference at the end of the article]

So, there are people who have questions that they would like to discuss,
but they are afraid of being ridiculed?  I do not think that any of hte
discussions that I have seen in more that 2.5 years on this net qualify
to be called ridicule.  There have been some very heated debates that
touched on sensitive issues, but beside the jabs over Sphard/Ashkenaz
traditions, none that I would call ridicule.

But, you have chosen to abandon the open net, and go into your moderated
super-frum ghetto, where you, the great Sage of our time, will decide
which article shall live and which article shall die.  You will also
abandon those Jews who do not subscribe to your theories of Judaism
and those who are using this net to increase their knowledge of Judaism.

The precept of 'Kall yisrael arayvin ze la-ze' (All Israel is responsible
one for the other) is being trampled by this moderated newsgroup.  Those
who can learn won't be able, those who want to learn won't be able, those
who don't want to learn won't have the learning thrust upon them.  As
Pesach approaches remember the four sons and the answers for each.  The 
wise son doesn't need your group, the wicked son will argue but the
discussion will make him learn in spite of himself, the simple son will
learn from the discussion, and the one who can't ask -- it says: "At
ptach lo" (you should open him).  What are you doing for these four
sons of net.religion.jewish? [Sons here is allegorical and in no way
excludes women by design or intent.]

Finally, you choose not to take part in any discussion of your action.
This is very typical of the Khomeini-like mentality of the new Orthodox.
If you are not with me you are against me.  This was never the attitude
of mainstream religious Judaism, but has begun to appear with the
pseudo-learned baale-tsuvah of this generation.  Rather than admit that
they still have things to learn, they assume that they have better knowledge
than anyone else, and that anyone with less knowledge is beneath their
contempt.  Rather than observe the spirit of Judaism, they prefer to observe
the letter of the law.

You probably think that I am reform or even a reconstructionist.  I am not.
I am a lifelong member of the Orthodox community.  This is not ridicule,
this is 'musar'.  I hope no one joins your mailing list, because then the 
purpose of nrj is gone, and there will be no more articles posted here.


David Esan (rochester!ritcv!moscom!de)


> Some of the people i've spoken to about the newsgroup have told
> me that they will not post articles to n.r.j for fear of being ridiculed etc.
> And since not everyone has the temperment or the desire to fight the
> world, one can't blame them.
> 
> One idea that has been suggested is to start a moderated mailing
> list dealing with issues of jewish law and culture.
> The subject matter of the mailing list will be halachic issues,
> NOT the validity of halacha.
> 
> Of course, anyone can subscribe.
> 
> I am not interested in starting a debate nor will i participate
> in one if it should occur.
> The mailing list will iy"h exist if people send me mail subscribing to it
> and will not exist only if there is no interest.  Discussions in n.r.j
> will have no effect.  So if you're into futility, flame away.