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From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Re: moderated halachic mailing list
Message-ID: <2319@aecom.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 12-Mar-86 15:46:21 EST
Article-I.D.: aecom.2319
Posted: Wed Mar 12 15:46:21 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 15-Mar-86 23:20:15 EST
References: <1696@mtgzz.UUCP> <660@moscom.UUCP>
Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY
Lines: 83



	I realized after sending my reply that I cut off too much of the article. I agree
 with the author that it is indeed a bad idea to have the moderated mailing list
 that was suggested. Having posted many articles to this newsgroup I can attest
 that there is little or no ridicule. Heated debate yes. Ridicule , no. If
 anyone cannot have his or her beliefs tested publicly by those who do not
 take everything for granted, then he or she should go and hide in a ghetto
 and not work in the modern world. You never know when someone will come
 and test your beliefs. The only way to be firm in your beliefs is to
 have them tested. preferably by someone sincere. That way the tester can point 
 out flaws and correct them without the testee feeling attacked in any way.
 However, if you don't like your beliefs tested you might come into a rude
 awakening in the future. 

			Eliyahu Teitz.


> [reference at the end of the article]
> 
> So, there are people who have questions that they would like to discuss,
> but they are afraid of being ridiculed?  I do not think that any of hte
> discussions that I have seen in more that 2.5 years on this net qualify
> to be called ridicule.  There have been some very heated debates that
> touched on sensitive issues, but beside the jabs over Sphard/Ashkenaz
> traditions, none that I would call ridicule.
> 
> But, you have chosen to abandon the open net, and go into your moderated
> super-frum ghetto, where you, the great Sage of our time, will decide
> which article shall live and which article shall die.  You will also
> abandon those Jews who do not subscribe to your theories of Judaism
> and those who are using this net to increase their knowledge of Judaism.
> 
> The precept of 'Kall yisrael arayvin ze la-ze' (All Israel is responsible
> one for the other) is being trampled by this moderated newsgroup.  Those
> who can learn won't be able, those who want to learn won't be able, those
> who don't want to learn won't have the learning thrust upon them.  As
> Pesach approaches remember the four sons and the answers for each.  The 
> wise son doesn't need your group, the wicked son will argue but the
> discussion will make him learn in spite of himself, the simple son will
> learn from the discussion, and the one who can't ask -- it says: "At
> ptach lo" (you should open him).  What are you doing for these four
> sons of net.religion.jewish? [Sons here is allegorical and in no way
> excludes women by design or intent.]
> 
> Finally, you choose not to take part in any discussion of your action.
> This is very typical of the Khomeini-like mentality of the new Orthodox.
> If you are not with me you are against me.  This was never the attitude
> of mainstream religious Judaism, but has begun to appear with the
> pseudo-learned baale-tsuvah of this generation.  Rather than admit that
> they still have things to learn, they assume that they have better knowledge
> than anyone else, and that anyone with less knowledge is beneath their
> contempt.  Rather than observe the spirit of Judaism, they prefer to observe
> the letter of the law.
> 
> You probably think that I am reform or even a reconstructionist.  I am not.
> I am a lifelong member of the Orthodox community.  This is not ridicule,
> this is 'musar'.  I hope no one joins your mailing list, because then the 
> purpose of nrj is gone, and there will be no more articles posted here.
> 
> 
> David Esan (rochester!ritcv!moscom!de)
> 
> 
> > Some of the people i've spoken to about the newsgroup have told
> > me that they will not post articles to n.r.j for fear of being ridiculed etc.
> > And since not everyone has the temperment or the desire to fight the
> > world, one can't blame them.
> > 
> > One idea that has been suggested is to start a moderated mailing
> > list dealing with issues of jewish law and culture.
> > The subject matter of the mailing list will be halachic issues,
> > NOT the validity of halacha.
> > 
> > Of course, anyone can subscribe.
> > 
> > I am not interested in starting a debate nor will i participate
> > in one if it should occur.
> > The mailing list will iy"h exist if people send me mail subscribing to it
> > and will not exist only if there is no interest.  Discussions in n.r.j
> > will have no effect.  So if you're into futility, flame away.

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