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From: mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller)
Newsgroups: net.columbia,net.space
Subject: Re: Morton-Thiokol Engineering Claims
Message-ID: <54@gilbbs.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 9-Mar-86 03:14:50 EST
Article-I.D.: gilbbs.54
Posted: Sun Mar  9 03:14:50 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 12-Mar-86 03:30:35 EST
References: <1301@decwrl.DEC.COM> <758@ism780c.UUCP> <6442@utzoo.UUCP>, <6474@utzoo.UUCP>
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In article <6474@utzoo.UUCP>, henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) writes:
> > It seems agreed by all that the engineers protested and were overruled
> > by "management."  Assumption of responsibility is the commodity
> > purchased by those big salaries paid to industrial managers...
> 
> As the Napoleon quote pointed out (in military terms because that was
> Napoleon's profession), "I was just following orders" is not an ethical
> excuse for acquiescing to a decision you know is wrong.

   Oh, come now.  In the first place, no one claimed they were "just following
orders".  Secondly, in the case of the Challenger flight, the dissenting 
engineers had no authority or clear means of preventing the launch, regardless
of their degree of conviction about the dangers.

> 
> > ...It's not so easy if you're the
> > engineer and you know that your press conference will cost you not only
> > your job but very likely your chances for another job...
> 
> The lack of that press conference cost the Challenger crew their lives.
> 				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
> 				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry

   Oh really?  What conclusive evidence can you present to us that would
support this seemingly idiotic comment?  There is no gaurantee that such a
press conference would in any way have delayed that launch.  Moreover, 
based on past history, there does seem to be considerable evidence that the
engineers in question would have been immediately fired, and labelled as
"malcontents" or some such silly label.

   The engineers, *IF* they in fact made their fears and reasoning known  to
their superiors, and attempted to stop the launch as claimed, did everything
within their power (short of sabotaging the launch support equipment).  It
seems to me that an awful lot of the comments around here aimed at these 
engineers here are coming from people with a pretty clear case of Ivory Tower 
Syndrome.

   For the sake of argument, let us assume that calling such a press conference
*WOULD* have halted the launch (assuming that the engineers weren't arrested
before they could make their statements!).  What I seem to be hearing here is
that even though the higher-ups chose to ignore their technical experts, and
go ahead with a launch that was likely to be unsafe, we should hold the 
engineers responsible.  It's okay for the fucking bureaucrats to wantonly
ingore facts in favor of politics, but it is criminal for the engineers not
to have taken steps that would have halted the launch, but permanently ruined
their careers.  Amazing.

   Using this logic, it is obvious that since the engineers failed to sabotage
the launch support systems, and thereby stop the launch at *ANY COST*, they
are criminally liable, and ought to be incarcerated immediately!


(to borrow a phrase from Joan Rivers:  grow up!)


-- 

====================================

Disclaimer:  I hereby disclaim any and all responsibility for disclaimers.

tom keller
{ihnp4, dual}!ptsfa!gilbbs!mc68020

(* we may not be big, but we're small! *)