Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: Version 1.0 Netnews CMS/BITNET 5/19/85; site PSUVM.BITNET
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ukma!psuvm.bitnet!miq
From: MIQ@PSUVMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: net.startrek
Subject: Re: Followup to 'His was the most human
Message-ID: <4624MIQ@PSUVMA>
Date: Sun, 23-Mar-86 15:10:25 EST
Article-I.D.: PSUVMA.4624MIQ
Posted: Sun Mar 23 15:10:25 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 25-Mar-86 02:36:52 EST
References: <1661@mtgzz.UUCP> 24900128@uiucdcs <4571MIQ@PSUVMA> 1742@mtgzz.UUCP
Lines: 63

In article <1742@mtgzz.UUCP>, leeper@mtgzz.UUCP (m.r.leeper) says:
     
>>>In other words, this is a LOGICAL way to play against such
>>>a player, right?
>>
>>     You mean the logical thing to do is to play randomly,
>
>Or pseudo-randomly.
>
>>without logic?
>
>No, to play pseudo-randomly with logic.  In game theory one often sees
>that the best results can be accomplished by using a randomizing
>element.  Suppose you are playing the children's game of "which had is
>the candy in?"  The best strategy in this game is to decide perfectly
>randomly which hand to put the candy in.  The fact that decisions are
>made randomly in a process does not imply that that process is without
>logic.  In fact it may be totally logical and still have a randomizing
>element.
>
>>Isn't that a contradiction in terms?  (Where have I heard that
>>before?)
>
>Hardly.  Why do you keep insisting that logic and randomness are
>completely incompatible?
>                                Mark Leeper
     
     A long time ago in a posting far, far away, you said that "To be logical
to take an illogical action is a contradiction in terms."  Ever since then,
I've been trying to show that it is NOT a contradiction, and that your own
position on "pseudo-randomness" is proof of this.
     Consider the following example:  I have to deliver a package to someone,
and it has to be there by a certain time.  I have a choice of two roads to
take, road A or road B.  I know that one of them is very crowded and slow at
this time of day (and would prevent me from arriving on time), but I can't
remember which one it is.  No one else around knows either.  Finally, with no
other alternative, I flip a coin.  Using the result of the coin flip, I decide
on road A.
     
     Question:  Was my decision to take road A a logical decision?
     Answer:    NO!!  I had no logical reason of any kind to pick road A
                over road B.
     Question:  Was my decision to choose between the two roads with a
                coin flip a logical decision?
     Answer:    YES!!  With no facts available, the only logical
                alternative was to abandon logic and resort to randomness.
     
     Hopefully this will clear up my position once and for all.  Randomness
CAN become a logical alternative, but it is NOT itself logical.  So, there ARE
times when the logical thing to do is be illogical; but, a creature/machine
that is both devoted to pure logic and loath to be illogical at any time for
any reason would never see this.
     
-------
                                               ------------------
James D. Maloy                                 |   THIS SPACE   |
The Pennsylvania State University              |    FOR RENT    |
UUCP Path:  ihnp4!psuvax1!psuvma.bitnet!miq    |  Call 555-1723 |
                                               ------------------
     "I am pleased to see we have differences.  May we together become
 greater than the sum of both of us."
                                           -- Surak of Vulcan