Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site fortune.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!hplabs!qantel!ihnp4!fortune!stirling From: stirling@fortune.UUCP (Patrick Stirling) Newsgroups: net.cycle Subject: Re: Re: Need classroom demonstration gyrosc Message-ID: <5905@fortune.UUCP> Date: Wed, 16-Apr-86 13:37:47 EST Article-I.D.: fortune.5905 Posted: Wed Apr 16 13:37:47 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 19-Apr-86 12:55:23 EST References: <562@kepler.UUCP> <800011@convexs> <329@tolerant.UUCP> Reply-To: stirling@fortune.UUCP (Patrick Stirling) Organization: Fortune Systems, Belmont, CA Lines: 33 Summary: confusion reigns! In article <329@tolerant.UUCP> beaver@tolerant.UUCP (Robert Beaver) writes: >> Um, what do gyroscopes have to do with countersteering? >> Countersteering is not related to precession. >> >> K > >You obviously don't understand. You certainly need a MSF refresher course > [...] > >--beaver Now I'm completely confused! Having read beaver's article I don't see where (s)he refutes anything K said! What I understood K to mean is that gyroscopic effects are very small (or negligible) in steering a bike, (particularly at low speeds) compared to the effect of the change in position of the bike's center of gravity. beaver then said that if you tilt a spinning wheel, it will precess (i.e tilt at right angles to both its axis of rotation and the initial tilt direction). I would say that both statements are true! Considering the relative forces generated a) gyroscopically by the front wheel and b) by the bike's center of gravity being out of the vertical line of the bike, I would say that the rotational force (b) is greater than the rotational force (a). However both forces act to lean the bike into the turn, so this is really academic! About coming up out of a turn: by Newton's 1st law of motion (Prof. Stirling here!), the bike's natural tendency is to travel in a straight line, so as soon as it's c.o.g is realligned (by uncounter-steering or leaning) it will straighten up. Another point is that I've found that I can steer my bike quite well without counter-steering, i.e. (presumably) without any gyroscopic help. patrick {ihnp4, hplabs, amdcad, ucbvax!dual}!fortune!stirling