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From: weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener)
Newsgroups: net.news
Subject: Re: Libel?
Message-ID: <12730@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 28-Mar-86 01:42:09 EST
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.12730
Posted: Fri Mar 28 01:42:09 1986
Date-Received: Sun, 20-Apr-86 15:30:54 EST
References: <2749@pyuxd.UUCP> <2773@pyuxd.UUCP> <2789@pyuxd.UUCP> <12685@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <20525@styx.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: weemba@brahms.UUCP (Matthew P. Wiener)
Distribution: net
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 49

In article <20525@styx.UUCP>:
>What irks me particularly is that Mr. Wiener has posted (by my count)
>at least nine articles to net.religion during the last two weeks (the
>expiration period on our machine), more than half of which contain
>flamage, accusations of bias, emotional language, and the like. 
>Why, then, does he find it necessary to single out various paragraphs
>of Rich Rosen's articles (which, out of context, seem to me more puzzling 
>than offensive) and cry foul?

Did I ever accuse anyone of denying pogroms, holocausts, etc.?  I'm talking
degree here.

I gave references so that the matter could be pursued.  Rich Rosen, you will
notice, does not give references.  (There were none in the messages I quoted
from.)

>The reason I care enough about this to post this is that Usenet exists
>by the sufferance of the management of hundreds of private firms and
>government agencies, many of whom would be inclined to drop
>participation if the net became more controversial than it already is.
>Mr. Weiner's inaccurate allegations of defamation do nothing to
>improve this sitation.

I do not think your description above is accurate, as I was *asking* would
they count as defamation.  I agree that Usenet exists at the sufference you
list, and when people like Rich Rosen post repeatedly as they do, the net
suffers.  I will defend my postings if you wish, I make retractions and
apologies when I go too far, I try to be fair whenever possible.  I keep
in mind the community whenever I post; I make mistakes and admit to them.
Try reading Rich Rosen for a few months and see if you would say the same
thing about him.

>I do not presume to give legal advice to Mr. Wiener, and if he
>continues to feel be has been defamed (after the legal research
>he should have done in the first place)

Again, I was *asking*.  Why do you think we have newsgroups in the first place?

>                                        I urge him to seek counsel.
>My belief, however, is that his remedy is to continue to publish his
>opinions in the appropriate newsgroups (NOT net.news!) or else leave
>the net if he considers the tone of discourse offensive.

Yes, net.news!  Where else do you discuss what to do about newsgroups?
Why should people be forced to leave newsgroups because of repeated and
inaccurate and unsupported charges against them?  I consider that a very
serious question, most appropriate for net.news.

ucbvax!brahms!weemba	Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720