Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site kontron.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!voder!kontron!cramer From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Reagan a pathological liar:re to Cramer Message-ID: <646@kontron.UUCP> Date: Mon, 24-Mar-86 13:50:13 EST Article-I.D.: kontron.646 Posted: Mon Mar 24 13:50:13 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 29-Mar-86 09:14:32 EST References: <1016@whuxl.UUCP> <588@kontron.UUCP> <982@cybvax0.UUCP> Organization: Kontron Electronics, Mt. View, CA Lines: 90 > In article <627@kontron.UUCP> cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes: > >> In article <611@kontron.UUCP> cramer@kontron.UUCP writes: > > >> >I think Reagan is the best President I can remember. (I would say he is > >> >doing a mediocre to fair job.) > > >The Presidents I remember: > > > >[deleted a description of why I couldn't stand Presidents Johnson > > through Carter] > >I stand by my statement. > > One problem is that I remember more presidents (Ike and Jack) than you > do. Another is that you have listed only the bad, and sometimes exaggerated > that. But even by your showing, Ford and Carter still come out better. As > far as Nixon and Johnson goes, Johnson was all you said. He also passed the > basic civil rights legislation. Nixon was "not a crook" but also the author > of detente and the China opening. Carter presided over economic problems which > began before he took office, and which became worse for a time under Reagan. The "basic civil rights legislation" you describe, while laws that I can approve of, led to affirmative action, of which I strongly disapprove. Johnson's deficit spending to fight the Vietnam War had a lot to do with the economic problems of the 1970s. > And Reagan's huge deficits will be with us when Reagan, Ford and Carter are > all dead. And Reagan lost Marines in Lebanon, Carter brought people home from > Iran. And Reagan is a lier, even if not a pathological one. He is the worst "Reagan's huge deficits" are jointly his responsibility and Congress'. The President can't force Congress to appropriate money -- they have to vote to spend it. Just as the current economic recovery isn't all Reagan's doing, the deficits aren't either. Sorry, Carter didn't bring the hostages home from Iran. The Iranian Govern- ment made *a point* of releasing them the day that Reagan took office to show their contempt and hatred for Carter. > lier by far (worse than Johnson or Nixon even) since he is so good at it. He > is also a warmonger. Or haven't you heard his threat to invade Nicaragua? I Ever hear about Johnson's start in politics throwing ballot boxes into a river in Texas? I'm not arguing that Reagan's foreign policies necessarily make sense -- just that they don't look so ridiculous compared to Johnson. (And compared to John Kennedy, Reagan isn't a warmonger at all. Remember the Cuban Missle Crisis?) > could go on, but one last point: Reagan is terminally stupid. Even things he > supports (the military) are likely to end up weaker in the long run because > of his policies. Or what would you predict as the likely consequence of Gram- > Rudman-Hollings together with fanatical support (even if other programs must > suffer) of SDI? I could go on, but why bother? > I'm not arguing FOR Reagan's policies -- I'm arguing that as Presidents go, we've had plenty as bad or even worse. > Also, Nixon was not and is not a leftist. I am not likely to agree with > your political opinions. You might at least leave me with the option of > thinking that your opinions could be the result of intelligence or insight. > Silly, stupid statements won't help do that. > > ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720 > ucbvax!weyl!gsmith "DUMB problem!! DUMB!!!" -- Robert L. Forward "Nixon was not and is not a leftist." You are talking about the President that gave us: 1) wage & price controls 2) recognized Communist China and started us down the road to derecognizing Taiwan 3) supported deficit spending with the assertion, "We are all Keynesians now." 4) introduced the revenue-sharing plan to give Federal tax money to the states 5) signed SALT I 6) dramatically reduced military spending as a percentage of the Federal budget 7) signed a peace treaty with North Vietnam. Now, I'm not going to claim that all of these actions were right or wrong. I'm just pointing out that whatever Nixon claimed to be, his actions are indistinguishable from those of someone like Jimmy Carter. My original comment on this subject was because someone asserted I was having neurological problems when I said Reagan was the best President I could remember. I don't expect everyone to agree with my assessment -- I am a little irritated that people have elevated the several recent turkeys who occupied the Oval Office to a position that makes Reagan look so much worse.