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From: hedrick@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Charles Hedrick)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian,net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Messiah versus Christian Messiah
Message-ID: <4609@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: Sun, 23-Mar-86 02:42:55 EST
Article-I.D.: topaz.4609
Posted: Sun Mar 23 02:42:55 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 26-Mar-86 23:07:45 EST
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Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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My own feeling on the matter is that Judaism and Christianity have now
split irreversibly, and that not all the king's horses nor all the
king's men are going to put them back together, short of the End, when
Christians believe Christ himself will do so.  In general I agree with
Yosi Hoshen that Jesus did not meet the typical Jewish definition of
the Messiah.  Yosi's summary of the situation is essentially the same
as the normal Christian view: that the 1st Century Jews were expecting
someone to defeat the Romans, and when Jesus didn't, they did not see
him as the Messiah.  However I should at least point out that 1st
Cent. Judaism had a bit more variation than is implied by that.  There
were those who expected a king like David, who would throw out the
Romans in battle.  Others expected an angelic figure, as described in
Daniel.  Some even expected two Messiahs, a king and a prophet.  So
it's very hard to say that Jesus was completely outside the realm of
acceptable interpretation in the 1st Cent.  Indeed some Jews obviously
did accept him as the Messiah, since Christianity started among Jews.
But it is clear that Jesus was not what most Jews expected.  Yosi
emphasizes national redemption.  There is no question that this was
important to 1st Cent. Judaism, as it is to Jews now.  However there
are certainly places in the OT where the Messiah is seen as someone
who will redeem the entire world.  Remember that in the 1st Cent.,
there were actually Jewish missionaries, and conversion to Judaism was
encouraged, at least in some circles.  Again, the range of views
acceptable within Judaism was wider than it became after 70 C.E.
Christianity did not invent very much out of whole cloth.  It
emphasized certain aspects of Judaism, and reformulated other things
in light of the fact that the Messiah had come.  After the destruction
of Jerusalem, Christianity and Judaism finally parted in an
irrevocable way.  Several things seemed to lead to this.  For one,
Christians had not participated in the defense of Jerusalem.  This may
go back to something Jesus himself said.  "When you see Jerusalem
surrounded by armies, then you will know that she will soon be
destroyed.  Then those who are in Judea must run away to the hills;
those who are in the city must leave, ...  For those will be 'The Days
of Punishment,' to make come true all that the Scriptures say."  (Lk
21:20-22, TEV.  The OT reference is to Ho 9:7) This led the Jews to
consider the Christians to be traitors.  But in addition to this, it
seems clear that the attitude of Christianity towards the Law, and the
Church's decision to admit Gentiles without requiring circumcision,
was bound to cause trouble in the long run.  For some time, around the
period of the destruction of Jerusalem, there was a sort of "battle of
prayers" in Judaism, as the standard Jewish prayers were reformulated
several times to come up with something that no Christian could
possibly say.  This was the period during which the last remnants of
Jewish Christianity were forced out of Judaism.  What came out of the
destruction of Jerusalem was a Judaism that was somewhat more unified,
and whose narrower range of variation could no longer accept
Christians.  After this point, I think it is fair to say that Jewish
Messianic expectations had as one component the idea "..  and whatever
else may be true, he *won't* be like that Jesus fellow".  Over the
following centuries, Judaism was willing to accept a number of very
strange new movements, but Christianity they already knew, and
rejected.  There were enough persecutions to prevent any tendencies
that might have led towards relaxing this rule.

My own opinion is that there are enough differences between
Christianity and Judaism that a split of some kind was inevitable.
After all, Christian prayer is in the name of Jesus, something that a
Jew is bound to think at least peculiar, and certainly will not want
to participate in himself.  At the heart of Christian life, we have
Baptism and Communion, acts which can have no significance to a Jew.
So even a Jewish Christian is going to have to do his primary worship
somewhere other than the Synagogue.  In the long run, this is going to
make the status of his membership in Judaism at least problematical.
I mean, what would Christians think of someone who had grown up as a
Christian, and continued to worship with us, though in fact he
believed that Christ had come to earth in John Ubizmo, and this person
went off every Monday to participate in Ubizmist sacraments.  Even if
Ubizmism didn't contradict Christianity in any specific way, one would
wonder whether Christ was really at the center of his life any more.
My own opinion is that Christians and Jews repect each other as part
of the people of God, and that we should be able to worship together.
The community in which I go to church has community-wide Thanksgiving
services which include Jews as well as Christians.  It rotates among
the churches and synagogues in town, with all of the priests,
ministers, and rabbis participating.  I think this is a good thing.  I
also think it is healthy for Christians to join their Jewish friends
for Passover seders and other religious celebrations.  When I was in
high school, I joined a group of Jewish friends who needed one more
person to form a minyan for a prayer group.  I would hope that a
Jewish Christian would still be able to join his Jewish friends for
services.  But I think we have to be realistic about the meaning of
such participation.  No matter how much good will is present on both
sides, it is naive to think that Jews will accept a Christian as a Jew
who just happens to believe that Jesus was the Messiah.  We should
also understand that the amount of acceptance you can expect is going
to depend upon your attitude towards Judaism.  If you believe Jews are
bound to go to Hell unless they accept Jesus, it is going to be sort
of hard to expect to participate fully in the life of the Jewish
community.