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From: mcewan@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU
Newsgroups: net.startrek
Subject: Re: Followup to 'His was the most human
Message-ID: <24900132@uiucdcs>
Date: Wed, 26-Mar-86 17:52:00 EST
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.24900132
Posted: Wed Mar 26 17:52:00 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Mar-86 01:07:30 EST
References: <1661@mtgzz.UUCP>
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Nf-ID: #R:mtgzz.UUCP:1661:uiucdcs:24900132:000:2729
Nf-From: uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU!mcewan    Mar 26 16:52:00 1986


>      A long time ago in a posting far, far away, you said that "To be logical
> to take an illogical action is a contradiction in terms."

And I agreed to it. It seems so obvious to me that I'm amazed that anyone
would argue against it.

>  Ever since then,
> I've been trying to show that it is NOT a contradiction, and that your own
> position on "pseudo-randomness" is proof of this.

Mark also said:

>Hardly.  Why do you keep insisting that logic and randomness are
>completely incompatible?
     
which you don't seem to understand. I will state it again: saying that
an action is random DOES NOT automatically imply that it is illogical.

>      Consider the following example:  I have to deliver a package to someone,
> and it has to be there by a certain time.  I have a choice of two roads to
> take, road A or road B.  I know that one of them is very crowded and slow at
> this time of day (and would prevent me from arriving on time), but I can't
> remember which one it is.  No one else around knows either.  Finally, with no
> other alternative, I flip a coin.  Using the result of the coin flip, I decide
> on road A.
>      
>      Question:  Was my decision to take road A a logical decision?
>      Answer:    NO!!  I had no logical reason of any kind to pick road A
>                 over road B.

WRONG! Since both roads have the same probability of being the "correct"
road, ANY method of selecting between them is logical. An illogical
decision would be to take road C, which doesn't go where you want to,
or to select randomly when the probabilities are NOT equal.

>      Question:  Was my decision to choose between the two roads with a
>                 coin flip a logical decision?
>      Answer:    YES!!  With no facts available, the only logical
>                 alternative was to abandon logic and resort to randomness.

Right and wrong. While I obviously agree that the choice was logical, it
is not true that "the only logical alternative was to abandon logic and
resort to randomness" on two points: 1) logic is not abandoned, and
2) resorting to randomness is not the only alternative; ANY method of
selecting a road is equally logical.

>      
>      Hopefully this will clear up my position once and for all.  Randomness
> CAN become a logical alternative, but it is NOT itself logical.  So, there ARE
> times when the logical thing to do is be illogical; but, a creature/machine
> that is both devoted to pure logic and loath to be illogical at any time for
> any reason would never see this.

I think all you've proven is that you're schizophrenic.

			Scott McEwan
			{ihnp4,pur-ee}!uiucdcs!mcewan

Green s/m watchlizard seeks s/f/wl - object: companionship. Reply
Box 23, Cynosure.