Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!hplabs!ucbvax!brahms!weemba From: weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) Newsgroups: net.singles,net.women Subject: Re: Re: Honesty (New Subject?) Message-ID: <12637@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: Tue, 25-Mar-86 02:13:01 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.12637 Posted: Tue Mar 25 02:13:01 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 26-Mar-86 07:22:44 EST References: <2444@sdcc6.UUCP> <3322@sun.uucp> <1448@osu-eddie.UUCP> <549@cisden.UUCP> <1248@mtx5a.UUCP> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: weemba@brahms.UUCP (Matthew P. Wiener) Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 85 Xref: watmath net.singles:11167 net.women:9862 In article <1248@mtx5a.UUCP> mat@mtx5a.UUCP (m.terribile) writes: >> {} >> >>If someone commits a crime at what point do you turn them in or do you? >> >... >> >> You didn't "feel right" about turning him in, but you felt right about >> shifting the loss and about breaking the stereo? Obviously, you felt you >> needed to do something, even if it was really nothing. Was he a good- >> enough buddy that you couldn't turn him in, but not really *that* good a >> buddy so that you could break "his" stereo? I don't like your code of >> ethics, Mark. >> >> If you didn't want to be the one to turn him in, another solution would have >> been to call the stereo store and let them know he was on his way down and >> let them call the cops. You could've called the girl whose checkbook it was >> and told her who had it and then let her call the cops. At least she'd've >> known what happened to her checkbook. I think you could've come up with a >> better solution given the amount of time you had to think about it. >> > >Of all the self-rightous crap! The fellow came to this group with a mess >of doubt and a willingness to learn and all you can do is complain about >his ethics and see to it that he will be very reluctant to try to ask >for advice again! Close down his way to self-improvement, that's it. >He couldn't possibly ever be as moral and socially responsible as you. >You wouldn't allow it. Self-righteous crap? The fellow came with a story of how he did NOTHING to prevent his roommate from stealing. Honesty is honesty and cannot be winked at. I'm sure this person was motivated by the highest ideals and always left the room whenever the stereo was turned on, since he wanted to stay clean of the whole affair. Sure my ass. >Well, Mr. Mackenzie, when did YOU find yourself in this bind? When did you >have to make this kind of choice? I'm dying to hear how a pillar of moral >strength such as yourself handled it! I originally was going to flame the original just as McKenzie did, but I didn't. However, as I have been in such a bind, I'll tell you how I did it. A woman friend who puts me up whenever I visit the area was shoplifting from the food store she worked at. I was aghast, and told her so. She started giving me some line about her boss this and her boss that. Actually, I had once worked there too, so I knew what she was talking about. I also knew that she was being screwed by her ex-husband over alimony payments. So what did I do? I loaned her several hundred dollars, that's what I did. And I gave her an advance on the part of the rent I was paying. And I paid for the stolen groceries. Not so out of the way, considering I ate some of them. And we discussed the issue at length. I did not see any of the money back until years later, and then as reduced rent at her place. I was a graduate student, ie not rich, at the time. >If indeed you ARE this pillar of moral strength, I hope that you appreciate >the dilemma. WHAT DILEMMA? His roommate was STEALING==HURTING SOMEBODY, and there is NO dilemma. Get rid of the parasite as fast as possible. > If you DON'T, then your strength is not moral strength, it is >dogma reduced to knee-jerking, without any trace of human compassion. Is looking the other way when someone is BEING HURT "human compassion"? > Show >us all how right you are and how wrong we are. Your ideas, your values are >so good that it doesn't matter who gets injured by the concussion when they >hit. Are you flaming Gregg or the original spineless chickenshithead? Who the hell is injured by having ethical standards? >Save it. I will never look the other way. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720