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From: tomczak@harvard.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.followup
Subject: Re: Air raid on Libya
Message-ID: <891@harvard.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 21-Apr-86 14:55:45 EST
Article-I.D.: harvard.891
Posted: Mon Apr 21 14:55:45 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 23-Apr-86 22:43:36 EST
References: <157@unido.UUCP> <858@ihlpl.UUCP>
Reply-To: tomczak@harvard.UUCP (Bill tomczak)
Organization: Aiken Comp Lab, Harvard
Lines: 92

In article <858@ihlpl.UUCP> res@ihlpl.UUCP (Rich Strebendt @ AT&T Information Systems - Indian Hill West; formerly) writes:
>
>I am pleased and proud that we finally have a President who has the
>guts to stand up to a petty bully like Kaddafi and to deliver a slap to
>his wrist to make him realize that he goes too far.  Look back at recent
>history and YOU tell ME who is "directly responsible for the the death
>of children and innocent people."

People like yourself who think violence is the only answer.  That glorify
vengeance as a rightful virtue in this world.

>
>Back during the Carter administration Kaddafi was ASKED to not support
>the killing of innocents by terrorists.  The brutal murders of innocent
>men, women, and children continued.
>
>Early in his first term in office Reagan TOLD Kaddafi to stop exporting
>terrorism.  Innocent people standing in line at several airports were
>machine-gunned and grenaded.
>
>Recently Reagan waved a fist (the Navy) under Kaddafi's nose and WARNED
>him to stop.  An American man and a Turkish woman died in a German
>disco.  Several people, including a baby, were blown out the side of an
>airliner.

And don't forget the attempt to economically strangle Kaddafi.  All good
reasons why I, very reluctantly, accept the raid on Libya as a necessary,
if desparate act.  I am not a supporter of Reagan or his thinking.  He
scares me because he seems too eager to use the military to bargain.
Something HAD to be done,  assuming the facts as most of us seem to agree
are accurate (that Kaddafi is, in fact, supporting, training and encouraging
terrorism around the world).  I can't think of any other options, but I
wish I had the confidence that Reagan was really interested in finding
other, nonviolent options.

>I was angered when I learned that the planes involved in the slap on
>Kaddafi's wrist were not allowed to over-fly France or Spain, adding
>around 2500 extra kilometers to their flight, thereby greatly
>increasing the hazard to these aircraft and their crews.  I am even
>more angered that the people of Europe do not have the guts to stand up
>to this petty tyrant in Libya, and are willing to accept the deaths of
>innocents as a blood-price for their own uninvolvement.

I think you're being unfair.  WWII was fought on their soil.  They know
the terrors of war in a way that most (nah, all!) living Americans can't 
appreciate.  Americans fighting in WWII were pissed off because of
Pearl Harbor, the main reason we finally got involved.  How do you imagine
Europeans felt while the Axis powers overran their own coutries?  Okay,
they're scared, it's entirely possible they have more at stake.  Perhaps
you'd like to get involved in the 'glory of war'.  To me, war becomes
a painful necessity because we, as human beings are too stupid and scared
to really talk to each other and understand that helping someone else
helps yourself.  (I realize that I'm vastly oversimplifying but this is
already longer than it should be).  

>But, what the hell, it is only Americans and Jews who are being killed,
>and a few others caught in the crossfire, so why should a German or a
>Spaniard, or a Frenchman give a damn?  These are not really people,
>with loved ones and families who have been machine-gunned, and what
>European really gives a fuck about an old American tourist in a wheel
>chair whose brains were blown out for the amusement of a
>Kaddafi-trained assasin?

So you care about him because he's an American?  How 'bout 'cause he's
a human being?  Plain and simple?  This kind of nationalism is what
fuels the fires of war.  Somewhere in Kaddafi's twisted excuse for
a brain, there probably some similar process keeping him demented.

>I am saddened that the free people of Europe think so little of their
>freedom and so little of the lives of innocents that they are unwilling
>to step down on that nasty little worm in Libya and free the world of
>that sick murderer.
>
>					Rich Strebendt

I am saddened that you seem to think that violence is a natural necessity
for freedom.  Violence begets violence.  Isn't this what history has
taught us?  Please do not misunderstand me!  I don't condemn Reagan's raid
on Libya.  But neither will I rejoice at the continuation of violence.
Killing ANYbody is, in my mind, a criminal act.  Whether it be done by
Kaddafi, out of necessity by Reagan and all you pure-red-blooded-America-
love-it-or-leave-it patriots, by law when referred to as 'capitol punishment'
or any other excuse that can be made.  I recognize it as a desparate act
committed by someone (or group of someones) who don't, can't, or won't
see any other options.

-- 
           +-------------------------------------+
           | Bill Tomczak                        |
           | uucp: harvard!tomczak               |
           | arpa: tomczak@harvard.harvard.edu   |
           +-------------------------------------+