Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!harvard!caip!lll-crg!lll-lcc!pyramid!decwrl!magic!thain From: thain@magic.DEC.COM (Glenn Thain) Newsgroups: net.followup Subject: Re: drug testing Message-ID: <495@magic.DEC.COM> Date: Tue, 6-May-86 14:58:44 EDT Article-I.D.: magic.495 Posted: Tue May 6 14:58:44 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 8-May-86 08:23:45 EDT References: <381@houligan.UUCP> <715@steinmetz.UUCP> <881@puff.UUCP> Organization: DEC Systems Research Center, Palo Alto Lines: 99 In article <881@puff.UUCP>, mading@puff.UUCP (Eric Mading) writes: (ERIC) > I think you should know that these pro ball players are idols for young > children. If these juvinile jocks see the ball players play good and then > learn they are fucked up on drugs, these kids will get the idea that drugs > are okay when in reality they are not. Drugs are the main cause of evil. "Drugs are the main cause of evil." This is a pretty powerful statement, which requires justification before one takes it at face value. How do you come to this conclusion? Drugs cause crime? Drugs kill? People are the missing element here, those who use and those who don't. This issue reminds me of one in the '50's, I believe a Senator McCarthy made the same broadsweeping generalization about those that participated in another freedom, the freedom of politics. Now these don't have very much in common, save for the fact that a group of people, " those who *know* what's right", are trying to institute another witch hunt. > I worry too about bus drivers, pilots, doctors, and nurses getting high > on drugs. We need drug testing for them, too. So do I. But drug testing is unreliable, if only because of the human factor. I *do* hope that if the aforementioned people are using recreational substances, that they are responsible in their usage, and never place anyone else's life in danger. If they do commit an act, they should be tried, and if found guilty should be punished to the full extent of the law. But I was under the impression "innocent before proven guilty" held some place in our system of belief's. > Kids also worship those in the entertainment business, so we can't have any > of them on drugs either. Children need to be educated on the matter of drugs and drug abuse. Not talking about this issue is what drives children to try and experiment. If the dangers were presented in an upfront, *adult* manner I feel most kids would take the message to heart. The problem in this country is we want to shield children from the horrors of the adult world, and then we expect them to deal with those horrors without having been exposed to them. > As for computer programmers, I plan to have my employees at my company of > the future drug free (this includes tobacco, as tobacco is a drug). How- > ever, I won't include prescription drugs or alcohol, as long as it is used > in moderation. Define moderation. Your defination or mine? These are the kinds of vauge replies one gets when this issue is brought up. Moral judgments need to be made on the application of such hings, and who's morals do we use? These tests are not reliable. People could lose jobs and security built up over the years on the crediblity of these tests. What happens if Joe working over in drug testing decides to switch tests between his friend Ed, and Frank, a guy he hardly knows? Frank is fired because his test results read positive, meanwhile Ed who still uses still reaps the benifits of the system. It can and will happen, in case after case. drug testing is a violation, a violation of the trust an employee and employer must have to conduct business. There is another frightening thing to consider here, it won't end the drug related crimes, as it's not your computer programmers who are out robbing houses. Rather than alienating those who use drugs, why not educuate? Where do we stop? what happens if we find that certain types of behavior arn't sutiable, do we have psychologists administer personality tests? Conform or be ostercized? Shall we eliminate employee theft by instituting lie detector tests to all employees? Fire all those who fail? See where this can lead? > I feel that it is worth mentioning that anyone in the entertainment world > cannot appear in cigarette ads. This also goes for athletes. However, I > have seen too often jocks and famous stars advertising alcohol and chewing > tobbaco. I feel that these stars should not be advertising these things. > And I also feel that no pro ball player should chew, because this just > encourages kids to chew (some do it as early as the first grade) and chewing > tobacco can kill, just like smoking can. > > Eric Mading > UW-Madison. I feel in necessary to mention that the steps you are advocating are designed to impringe on moral behaviors that we find disgusting to our senses. I have no problem with responsible drug use, what one does in the privacy of his or her home and body is none of my business. So long as they remain responsible with their vices, I have no reason to complain. Drugs and their attendent problems arn't going to go away because everyone is being watched by "Big Brother". Only by education, responsible behavior on the part of the users, and help from the medical community will the problems start to be solved. a generation or two ago, drugs became part of American life. Creating fear and dissention is no way to solve a problem of this scale. Only education, and prosecution of negligent actions while under the influence will help stem the tide. Happy Trails, Glenn thain@decwrl.DEC.COM ( The opinions above are my own, colored by my education and experiences, and in no way should be attributed to anyone else, unless they wish them to be.)