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From: jr@inset.UUCP (Jim R Oldroyd)
Newsgroups: net.info-terms,net.internat
Subject: Re: In search of a sane keyboard standard
Message-ID: <943@inset.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 6-May-86 03:13:12 EDT
Article-I.D.: inset.943
Posted: Tue May  6 03:13:12 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 14-May-86 01:28:49 EDT
References: <2071@cbosgd.UUCP>
Reply-To: jr@inset.UUCP (Jim R Oldroyd)
Organization: The Instruction Set Ltd., London, UK.
Lines: 78
Xref: linus net.info-terms:465 net.internat:29

I quite like Mark's final Standard Layout, but make the following
points:

- The location of the DEL key is very important.  This is because it
  is quite common over in Europe to use DEL for <delete> and
  BS for <backspace> which are quite different concepts.  (Consider
  line editing, for example).  However, Mark's choice of position is
  acceptable.  HP's use of SHIFT-something is NOT!

- The positioning of keys like \ | ` ~ [ ] { } is a major problem.
  Mark admits to placing some of these at his own discretion.
  But, in many countries, these characters are not `back', `pipe',
  `subs', `tilde', brackets or braces; but appear as `c-cidilla',
  `e-acute', `angstrom' etc.  The location of such keys is, of course,
  defined in the typewriter layouts adopted by these countries.
  [Sorry can't quote any refs here.]  As an example, in Denmark,
  the keys `angstrom', `o/' and `ae' are arranged thus:

                                      --------------------------
                                       |  P  | ang |  +  |     |
                                       |     |     |  ;  |     |
                                      -------------------| <CR>|
                                    |  L  |  ae |  o/ |        |
                                    |     |     |     |        |
                                  ------------------------------

  [Note also the size of the <CR>.]
  In Norway, they have the SAME three characters.  But the `standard'
  layout is:

                                      --------------------------
                                       |  P  | ang |  +  |     |
                                       |     |     |  ;  |     |
                                      -------------------| <CR>|
                                    |  L  |  o/ |  ae |        |
                                    |     |     |     |        |
                                  ------------------------------

- Then of course, there are major problems with Mark's proposals
  in countries where QWERTY is not the standard layout for the
  alphabetic characters.  In France, AZERTY is used; in parts
  of Germany, QWERTZ is popular.

One of the problems facing the designer of a keyboard is not only
how to position the keys of the US ASCII set, but also how to
locate them in such a way as to be convienient for users of non-US
ASCII keyboards.  For the user of such keyboards who ALSO has
to work with several types of such keyboards, the time spent
hunting for keys is ridiculous.

Currently, two solutions to this problem seem to be in use.
1. Provide an `ASCII' keyboard with the local characters where
   they'll fit.
2. Provide a local keyboard.

The first solution has the advantage that it is cheaper, more
flexible and the `international' user can quickly locate the
majority of the keys.

The second solution is preferable to the End-Users of Applications
and also to a large number of Software Developers who (rightly)
ask "Why should WE use a US keyboard?".

	Jim.

PS:   I understand that in French secretarial colleges, the AZERTY
      layout is being phased out.  Could someone add more input on
      this?

PPS:  What about the Dijkstra(?) keyboard?  I understand there's now
      a version for use with computer systems.

-- 
"The Software did it".
--
++ Jim R Oldroyd
++ jr@inset.co.uk
++ ..!mcvax!ukc!inset!jr