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From: dr@ski.UUCP (David Robins)
Newsgroups: net.micro.apple
Subject: Re: C compiler for apple ][ ???
Message-ID: <249@ski.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 10-May-86 20:11:43 EDT
Article-I.D.: ski.249
Posted: Sat May 10 20:11:43 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 14-May-86 01:09:17 EDT
References: <368@hope.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Smith-Kettlewell Institute, S.F., CA.
Lines: 114

> I'm looking for information about C compilers for the apple ][.  Any
> information would be GREATLY appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Steve Novack

Funny you should ask!

I just recently received a MANX Aztec-C compiler for the Apple.
It turns out, MANX has several packages, as seen in some of their ads.

DOS 3.3 systems:

	Aztec-C Apprentice system- for learning C
		generates a pseudo-code, which is interpreted at runtime
		has separate runtime system for graphics programs,
			which eliminates use of some trig functions,
			scanf, etc.
		Fast one-pass compiler
		Must have SHELL present
		Uses a runtime package of ~70 sectors length
		Code is small for this reason
		Price ~ $30.00 (quite a bargain!)

	Aztec-C Personal System- no longer made

	Aztec-C C-Prime
		has a real compiler and native code assembler
		linker for standard library, as well as floating point
			and graphics
		much faster than Apprentice-C
		code longer, of course.
		No runtime code, but must have SHELL present
		Price ~99.00 (includes Apprentice-C) - takes place of
		Personal C package.

Both of of these come with a UNIX-like "shell", which uses many of the
familiar UNIX commands.  All programs must run under the shell.  Cannot
link apprentice-c code and c-prime code.

	Aztec-C Developer's package
		has both a pseudo-code and native code compiler
		can link program modules of any mixture of these types
			to get a compact program with fast (but larger) parts
			for the time-consuming loops, etc.
		    (but I don't know if a runtime package is needed for
		    the pseudo-code in this mixture)
		CAN PRODUCE stand-alone code- additional 2-4K runtime code
		Price ~199.00

	Aztec-C Commercial package (supports PRODOS and DOS 3.3)
		in beta-test now (not available)
		will support some RAM addition (/RAM like PRODOS ???)
		Price ~299.00


Size of program allowed (including data storage, etc):		
	
	Apprentice-C:  no graphics: ~8k space
		       with graphics: ~ 5600 bytes, or ~14k if using
		       HGR2 instead of HGR page1.

The company doesn't mention size in the C-Prime part; they told me it's
the same as Apprentice-C.  They have not split the code to allow jumps
around the graphics pages, so graphics programs are bound by that upper
limit.  They may support auxiliary RAM cards in the future to store
data, or maybe even store swapable code, but nothing definite yet.
bytes in the Apprentice-C

The Developer's version allows overlay code, so programs can be any
size, and parts can be swapped in from disc.  I don't know about support
for hard drives.  

These packages require unmodified DOS in the standard location, so
pseudo-RAM drives and DOS-movers cannot be used.

Throrough manual included with the C-prime package and Apprentice system
I have.

The company tech I spoke to recommended the PC systems, rather than the
Apple systems, because of the larger space available in the PC, and the
lack of interference with the graphics pages.
(systems available for MS-DOS, PC-DOS,CP/M-86, MacIntosh, Amiga,
CP/M-68K,Apple II, Commodore C128, Radio Shack)

FURTHER READING:

	Call-A.P.P.L.E. December 1983, and January 1984
		"C" What I Mean, Parts I & II, Jim Hockenhull
		(Pt I explains C; Pt II reviews the Aztec-C $200 system)

Anecdotal "benchmark": using the standard published Sieve programs from
Byte in C and BASIC:

(All times include the Titan Accelerator //e card, running unless noted)
for a sieve of size 7000 (yielding 1651 primes)

	Applesoft                     = 240 seconds  (few hundred bytes)
	Applesoft                     = 73 seconds
	Microsoft Applesoft Compiler  = 18 seconds
	Apprentice-C                  = 12.5 seconds(file size 5 sectors)
	C-Prime C                     ~ 1.5 seconds (file size 50 sectors)


BTW:  I have no connection with MANX or APPLE.
-- 
====================================================================
David Robins, M.D. 
Smith-Kettlewell Institute of Visual Sciences
2232 Webster St; San Francisco CA 94115
415/561-1705
			{ihnp4,qantel,dual}!ptsfa!ski!dr

The opinions expressed herein do not reflect the opinion of the Institute!