Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!hplabs!tektronix!reed!kamath From: kamath@reed.UUCP Newsgroups: net.micro.apple Subject: Re: Apple //x (or Why I Hate Macintoshes [longish]) Message-ID: <3511@reed.UUCP> Date: Wed, 21-May-86 22:41:26 EDT Article-I.D.: reed.3511 Posted: Wed May 21 22:41:26 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 24-May-86 20:11:55 EDT References: <346@ius2.cs.cmu.edu> Reply-To: kamath@reed.UUCP (Sean Kamath) Distribution: net Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon Lines: 121 Keywords: Apple, Macintoshes, yuk. Summary: The Apple //x is not a Mac In article <346@ius2.cs.cmu.edu> ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu (Ralph Hyre) writes: >[from delphi mac digest] > > [deleted] > >Sounds like an interesting machine, hopefully there will be a Mac-like >University discount program - I can get a Mac+ for $1500 and it includes >a monitor and disk drive. Speed seems comparable to the current machines >equipped with 'accelerator' (6502C or 65C02C) cards. > >Slots: >------ >I could live with only four slots if the machine already has 2 serial ports, >real-time clock, and mouse interface built in. Otherwise they're going >to need more slots. Here's how I'd use the four slots: >1) Expansion memory/bus expansion/experimentation >2) Mass Storage: SCSI/CBUS/floppy controller >3) 80286 coprocessor >4) 68020 coprocessor > > [more stuff about what's 'right'...] > >This machine will have problems unless it is almost totally compatible with >the ][+ and //e. If Apple can combine Apple ][ compatibility, good graphics, >multitasking, and the potential for Mac and PC emulation (presumably with >68020 and 80[23]86 co-processors) then nothing will stop it. >-- > - Ralph W. Hyre, Jr. > >Internet: ralphw@c.cs.cmu.edu Phone: (412)CMU-BUGS Now I don't mean to demean the author of this article, but I feel some things need to be said. For one thing, why have 2 coprocessor cards? Leave only one slot for expansion/interfacing? No way. Apple should stick with at least 6 slots. I use all of them, with a couple of cards having to swap every now and then, since the third slot has problems. I agree that it will have serious problems unless it's close to completely compatable. But why have Mac emulation? Who WANTS to deal with either MS-DOS or the like? Frankly, ProDOS was close enough for me. I get so sick of people comparing the new //x or any other ][ to a Mac. They are not meant to be the same machine. Like that Mr. Dvorak said. He feels that the //x is going to be nothing but a Mac clone. Bull. How could it be? If all that the //x is going to have going for it over a Mac is color, then Apple would make a color Mac. The basic idealogical differences between the Mac and the ][ line is that one is ment to be used, the other to be worked on. i.e. the Mac is for non-technically oriented people to work with, either word-proccessing or desktop publishing and the like, the ]['s are for programming, learning, expiremental interfaceing, etc. Have you every tried to hook a Mac up to the outside world? The world is NOT serial, and it can be one hell of a bitch to have to convert EVERYTHING to serial so that the Mac can even look at it. I mean, even getting the mac to work in color takes another $2000 computer and a dedicated software program. I for one don't want to have to wait for my computer to boot up, then wait for an application to load in order for me to plot a simple graph, or make some noise, or even call up the VAX and get going. Try that with a Mac. Turn it on. What can you do? Enjoy that question mark. Apple can't get away from the ease of use of the Mac, granted, but they still have to put things in for the programmers. Have you ever hit the 'interrupt' switch on a Mac+? You get an interger prompt. Then type "DM". It dumps memory. Type "G" to continue. A friend of mine sunk his teeth into this, and found out that if you can find the pointers to the finder, put them in the right place, you can return to the finder even if a program crashes. Then you might be able to save some of it. Anyone who programs in machine language on a ][ knows that it is very easy to recover a lot of a text file or other data when the machine bombs, and usually you can get back into the application. No stupid dialog box. It's so frustrating to see that "continue" button and not be able to click on it. Have you ever tried to recover a disk for the Mac? I do all the time (my job). It's a pain in the butt! On a ][ give me ten minutes and I can recover everything recoverable... Anyway, enough about why I hate Macs. Apple shouldn't try to make a Mac out of a ][. It won't work. It won't sell. I realize right along with everyone else that the Apple //e is due for some revamping and increased power. But the way some people talk, you'd think they'd be satisfied with nothing less than a MicroVax. It won't happen guys. You can't buy a $500 '67 Chevy and turn it into a $100,000 Masarati. Not for anything less than $200,000. You can come close, but why bother? I agree, the ][ line is not the most powerful every concieved, but it's not supposed to be. Sure, I often have to use, horror or horrors, line numbers when I program. Yeah, I don't have octuple precision numbers. But so what? I don't want Maclike windows. I hate them. I don't want to have to rely on the mouse to get stuff into the computer, or to select options. Despite what whatshisface (was it that pinhead Dvorak again?) said in MacUser about "FKeys", which he described as any key typed in conjuction with the "command" key (or contol for us old-time folks), I feel that it is impossible to display every option of a program through those idiotic pull doen or pull up menus. I mean, it's a real pain to have to pull down one menu, let alone to have to pull own a menu, select another menu, then make the choice, as in MS Word (to select Formats and then set tabs, etc.). He kept asying that Mac users don't want these, and that Programmers are ruling us all by forcing the issue. Well, whoever you are (I can't find the MacUser right now), if teh programmer wants something in his or her program, they're going to put it in, no matter what you say. They may add things they don't want, but they ain't gonna take out something they want in. Well, I just reread all this, and I haven't really said a whole lot except I hate Macs. I have left out a lot of the pro side of macs, like graphics and animation (when done correctly, not sloppily). I just wish people would stop comparing the Mac to the //x. Windows are alright in certain applications, but not all the time. Mice are fine for certain applications, but not all the time. I don't need desk accesories. I hope the people at Apple realize that not everyone yearns for Maclike capabilities on Apple ]['s. send flames to: Sean Kamath UUCP: {ihnp4,decvax,hplabs,ucbcad}!tektronix!reed!kamath US Snail: Box 395 Reed College Portland, OR 97202 Phone: (503) 239-7458 p.s. Sorry it was so long, I just get into these moods...