Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!qantel!lll-lcc!lll-crg!seismo!mcvax!cernvax!hpb
From: hpb@cernvax.UUCP (hpb)
Newsgroups: net.micro.mac
Subject: Re: IBM vs. Mac debate
Message-ID: <306@cernvax.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 7-May-86 14:13:33 EDT
Article-I.D.: cernvax.306
Posted: Wed May  7 14:13:33 1986
Date-Received: Sun, 11-May-86 16:45:28 EDT
References: <2515@sdcc6.UUCP> <1019@runx.OZ> <13351@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <978@well.UUCP> <178@bridge2.UUCP> <303@ur-tut.UUCP>
Reply-To: hpb@cernvax.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Followup-To: akk2@ur-tut.UUCP (A Kracker)
Organization: CERN, Geneva/Switzerland
Lines: 89

In article <303@ur-tut.UUCP> akk2@ur-tut.UUCP (A Kacker) writes:
--- A series of quotes from the ongoing debate, ending with:
>>That is what the Mac Excels at, "easy to USE"
>>
>>			Norm Goodger
--- And then:
>
>Is it really ? I personally would not mind going through the motions of
>having to configure the software to my system, especially since I CAN CHOOSE
>what add-ons I want and not have to live with someone else's decision.

There is nothing inherent in the Mac that forces it to restrict a user
to a certain configuration. Although it demands more of an effort from
the software designer, he/she can readily write applications that allow
users to "configure" their system in a specific way or to operate in
different ***modes*** (oh how I hate that word) of "user friendliness".
The Mac was designed around some basic common sense principles, one of
them being that a user must be able to leave his/her system on a two
week vacation without having spend a day relearning his/her latest
"configuration" upon returning.

>What is Mac other than being a CUTE!! machine good for drawing pretty pictures
>in MacPaint ? A puny screen, B&W at that ! One built-in disk drive, no eject
>button.Get your disk stuck? Use a MacTool ( straightened paper clip) to get
>it out.At least IBM put an eject button on its PC Convertible.

One pretty picture can replace 1000 words as the saying goes. If you try
reading some IBM documentation you might sometimes whish there were
a few more "pretty pictures".
One built in disk drive and the option of "building in" 20Mbytes of
hard disk storage capacity.
I've had my mac for two years (+) and only twice have I had to eject
the disk using the "MacTool-trick". An option is always to hit the
reset button (debugger switch) and hold down the mouse button. This
does tend to have an adverse effect on the status of your current
working environment though. :-)
>
>Word processors ? MacWrite and MS Word ? You got to be kidding!
>Want to see the whole page while typing ? Move the window right and left,
>a very inefficient way of doing things.

IBM - Want to see an illustration or special type-face while you are
typing? Can't do it.
I agree though. The screen is too small, but I can put up with that
until Jonathon comes along.
>
>Want to write a quick and dirty application for your own use ? Sit down with
>MacGuts revealed or some such thing and learn how to draw those stupid icons.
>Dialog boxes, Alert boxes and all that crap.
>
"MacGuts revealed" - I like that! Otherwise though I would like to point
out to you that there are plenty of environments that allow you to
program "quick and dirty" applications on the Macintosh without dealing
with what you so eloquently refer to as "all that crap" or the Macintosh
environment.  I am not saying that these are ideal systems, but they
let you do a fair amount of work without dealing with the specifics of
Macintosh. What Apple has done with the Mac is to place the responibility
of creating easily usable and universally integratable applications on
the developers. That costs in time and effort and causes the learning
curve to be slow and sometimes painful. Once one reaches a certain level
of proficiency though great powers are bestowed upon one. The end
user is the one to benefit. That's the way it should be!

>No option of using a command line interface instead of moving the mouse
>around icons. If I want to delete a file, I would like to say DELETE filename
>instead of moving the picture into the trash.

There are a number of (desk) accessories that allow you to delete and
rename files by selecting them through a standard file selection interface.
This can be done whether one is on the desktop or in an application.

>Well at least someone designed a machine that any idiot could learn to use;
>thats all who'll stay with the mac though.

So I guess I'm an idiot in your (IBM) world. It's fun though!
>
>Well thats enough for one session. No I have no ties with IBM... I wish I did
>though :-).
>
>A.Kacker... seismo!rochester!ur-tut!akk2

Hans Peter Brondmo
PS CO, CERN CH-1211
Geneva 23, Switzerland

My use of this network and my statements on it, should not be taken to mean
that CERN agrees with the ideas I express.
I think some individuals might though seeing that there are close to 200
Macs on the cite.