Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site jade.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!jade!ucbopal!mwm From: mwm@ucbopal.berkeley.edu (Mike (I'll be mellow when I'm dead) Meyer) Newsgroups: net.rumor,net.news.adm Subject: Re: ading other peoples' mail Message-ID: <611@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: Sat, 26-Apr-86 09:21:34 EDT Article-I.D.: jade.611 Posted: Sat Apr 26 09:21:34 1986 Date-Received: Mon, 28-Apr-86 04:48:31 EDT References: <703@frog.UUCP> <12400018@uiucdcs> <2410@jhunix.UUCP> <132@fai.UUCP> <4697@ut-sally.UUCP> <692@hoptoad.uucp> <736@mmm.UUCP> Sender: usenet@jade.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: mwm@ucbopal.UUCP (Mike (I'll be mellow when I'm dead) Meyer) Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica Lines: 55 Xref: watmath net.rumor:2077 net.news.adm:654 In article <736@mmm.UUCP> bngofor@mmm.UUCP (MKR) writes: >Yes, you physically *can* behave unethically, but that doesn't make it >right. What you're saying is analogous to: "The US Government has a right >(even a duty by your standards) to open mail and read it because it's >passing through their facilities." In fact the US postal service does not >have that right, and neither do you. Uh, might I point out one minor difference between the US postal service and John Gilmores sun? The Post Offal is paid for by money taken from the public, and is a government organization. John Gilmores Sun, on the other hand, is paid for out of John Gilmores pocket, and belongs to him. The analogy is bogus. For example, the Post Awful HAS to deliver all mail, as long as the aren't breaking federal laws in the process. John doesn't have to - he could silently quit forwarding mail from off-site, or just mail from obnoxious name-calling nitwits. Likewise, the PO makes a habit of keeping copies of all e-mail that goes through their system (they may have changed that by now - I hope so). I doubt that any mail system not funded by the infinite pockets of the US taxpayer could afford to do that. I also suspect that you (among others) would scream bloody murder if some mail admin claimed to be doing that. >The only reason it's not illegal now (and it may very well be... I just >don't know if a test case has come up yet) is that the technology and >widespread use is too new to be covered by existing law. Great - you don't like the way somebody runs their system, so you get the government to threaten to jail the mail admin. Of course, at the same time, people are working on making it illegal *NOT* to read the mail going through your system, by holding you liable if the law is broken with mail passed over your system (yeah, I know it's a silly idea - but the stupidity of the US govt is never to be underestimated. The post offal, being a government organization, would be exempt from that law, of course). Of course, this may all be moot - the post office has publicly stated that e-mail is *MAIL*, and belongs to the post office by law. Any other agents delivering mail should be shut down. Therefore, there won't be any problem with mail admins reading forwarded mail - nobody but the PO will be forwarding mail (and keeping a copy, probably). Yes, reading other peoples mail is unethical. But if I were in Johns shoes, and found my phone bill doubling, I'd start collecting stats (by looking in my uucp logs, *NOT* at the mail) about where the mail is going to. If it turns out that the bulk of it was going to one person, I'd probably open it to find out what the devil they were up to, as the alternative of refusing to forward mail to that person is even worse. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about the phone bill or bounced mail, so I never look at other peoples mail. By the same token of course, I don't go wading around in other peoples files, even though I could. It's still private material, and reading it is unethical. How many other system admins do the same? Anyone want to make looking at files on a system illegal, along with mail?