Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!think!harvard!caip!lll-crg!gymble!umcp-cs!nbs-amrf!libes
From: libes@nbs-amrf.UUCP (Don Libes)
Newsgroups: net.unix-wizards
Subject: Re: DUMP is too verbose (really: what do you use for a console?)
Message-ID: <291@nbs-amrf.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 10-May-86 20:11:27 EDT
Article-I.D.: nbs-amrf.291
Posted: Sat May 10 20:11:27 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 13-May-86 01:11:11 EDT
References: <138@ubc-vision.UUCP> <1252@ulysses.UUCP>
Organization: National Bureau of Standards
Lines: 48

In <1252@ulysses.UUCP> Griff Smith <ggs@ulysses.uucp> writes:
> In <138@ubc-vision.UUCP> Dan Razzell <razzell@vision.ubc.cdn> writes:
> > What is the purpose of DUMP periodically repeating its prompts to
> > mount a new tape, ask for retry, etcetera? Seems redundant to me, and not
> > in the spirit of Unix, to nag the user in this way and fill the terminal
> > with verbiage.
> 
> In our center, the user is an operator.  A mild reminder that (s)he has
> taken too long seems appropriate.  The entry on the log file generated
> by the backup script is also useful for monitoring speed of service.

Saying you can track operator speed through the number of dump's
nags is not a good enough reason.  A reminder is a reminder...if
the operator is going to ignore one, your operator has a problem.

Needless to say, these message annoy me, but for a different
reason...they cause important information (particularly kernel and
driver messages) to scroll off the screen.  And this brings me to
the real subject.  We have various systems with an assortment of
console devices, namely 1) Decwriter, 2) VT100 and 3) Sun monitor.
They each seem to have drawbacks.

For example with (3), when the server crashes (in a severe enough
way), it clears the screen and/or does not log the panic.
Sometimes it reboots (or a user reboots it, or power goes off
momentarily and it autoreboots) and we lose this information.  (2)
is slightly different.  The Sun never clears the VT100's screen,
however, messages scroll off much quicker, since it is only
24-lines. (And with >80 character "mild reminders", this occurs all
too quickly.)

(1) has the obvious problem that sometimes you really need to do
editting on the system standalone, and you are reduced to
line-editting.

I wouldn't mind being able to leave a Decwriter on the console but
be able to switch to a standby crt (cheap $), but the Sun will
crash if we disconnect the console.  Maybe I should build a switch
just on the receive data line?  Is this incredibly stupid?  What do
other people do?

Has anyone considered using a PC?  This would enable you to keep
logs of what really appeared on the console, plus you could keep it
on disk indefinitely.  Of course, you still have the problem of
powerouts affecting the PC.  I'm really starting to lean towards
the Decwriter, even though it sounds grotesque.

Don Libes          {seismo,umcp-cs}!nbs-amrf!libes