Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site mit-eddie.MIT.EDU Path: utzoo!decvax!bellcore!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!gds From: gds@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Greg Skinner) Newsgroups: mod.music Subject: Love-Hounds Digest Message-ID: <2085@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU> Date: Sat, 24-May-86 03:53:58 EDT Article-I.D.: mit-eddi.2085 Posted: Sat May 24 03:53:58 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 24-May-86 19:14:37 EDT Organization: MIT Lusers and Hosers Inc., Cambridge, Ma. Lines: 404 Approved: gds@eddie.mit.edu Love-Hounds Digest Saturday, May 24, 1986, 03:56 EDT Topics: Re: Roxy Romance Video Question re KB (2 msgs) synths and music The better part of valor The Big Sky Kate and the commercial KB & PG, and a Cure question [davidl%tekgen.tek.csnet: Clearly,] [][][][][][][][][][] Sender: Paul Benjamin Date: Fri, 16 May 86 09:40 MST From: Paul Benjamin Subject: Re: Roxy Romance > Date: Thursday, 15 May 1986 13:22 mst > Really-From: ll-xn!uwvax!astroatc!gtaylor (oh...*Gregory* Taylor...never mind.) > >God send my ANYONE who can relate to my "abnormal" daily fix > >of Roxy Music &/or Bryan Ferry. Jesus, I listen to Roxy soooo > >much each and every year I have to replace albums.....Guess a > >CD would be more practical, huh? > Yes, I can, though my needs aren't daily. For all our whining about > how wonderful Kate is, I'd be hard pressed to find any other single > group of artists who so successfully redefined everything that came > after them (like Diane Arbus' use of the 2 1/4" square photograph) > quite apart from specific style (read "emphasis on style" and have > so singularly changed the face of British popular music. With the > exception of Paul MacCartney's old band. I guess that one could claim > that the Sex Pistols fall into that category, but I feel that they're > indicative of a trend rather than actually the original harbingers of > it. That's a bad thing to say here in a Kate Bush newsgroup, I guess. Not at all. > Anyway, the Roxy CD is all it's cracked up to be, and clocks in at a > great time. I've only the slightest argument with their concentration > on "Flesh and Blood" period stuff, and the slightest argument with > which Brian Ferry covers they chose, but hey. The canon ain't half > bad, and most of the important work is all there. What are you talking about? There are, of course CDs of all of the Roxy albums. It sounded like you might have meant "Roxy Music - The Atlantic Years", a rather confusing import that is mostly stuff from Avalon and Flesh and Blood, plus Love is the Drug and The Strand, but you mentioned Bryan Ferry covers. This is something different. Details, please. [][][][][][][][][][] Date: 16 May 86 12:33:00 PST From: "ROSSI J.A." Subject: Video Question re KB Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." Were there any other video releases from the Dreaming other than Suspended in Gaffa. More specifically, was there a video release of the title track? Does anyone have information of any Laser Disk video releases of Kate's stuff? John ------ [][][][][][][][][][] Date: 16 May 86 14:10:00 PST From: "ROSSI J.A." Subject: synths and music Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." How can you overuse a musical instrument. Those comments by Hofmann concerning the proper amount opf synthesizer a piece should have are so absurd they are hard to take seriously. Hof, wouldn't you say that Chopin used a little too much piano in most of his work, or maybe there was a little too much brass in Herb Alpert's band? Why should a synthesizer be treated any differently than conventional (older) musical instruments? There hasn't been a synthesist that I respect that has gone around trying to imitate conventional instruments. As to the comments about 'organ imitation' (not to be confused with the organ imitation employed by heavy metal guitarists with a sexual identification crisis) this is, I believe, a deplorable use of ther instrument. The only multiphonic electronic kbd I ever owned was a Univox string synthesizerand it did only one thing, that's right, sounded like a phase modulated, slightly distorted string section (when played properly, and its amazing how misused that particular instrument was for about 6 years in the mid 70's). When scoring a composition for an electronic music class at McGill, I penned in 'PM-Strings' (phase modulated Univox), I was told by the lab assistant 'THERE IS NO SUCH INSTRUMENT AS STRINGS'. Maybe there wasn't before string synths, but there certainly was after. I didn't want a string section in the piece, I wanted PM-Strings. Today we have sophisticated electronic music personnel (I hope) who understand such concepts. Unfortunately we also have people like Hof who want to cling to the safety of conventional musical expression. I also resent the mentioning of Kate Bush as an example of someone who is apart from the rest in that her overuse of synths is ok. Get it straight, there are synthesizers and there are Fairlights. While using a Fairlight as does Kate, shares a lot in common with some synthesizer techniques, the whole technology of sampling musical kbds (notice I didn't say sampling synthesizers which is a misnomer) opens up the world of 'real sounds' (i.e., not synthetic) for use in a musical context. Ive noticed (now that I have the whole set) synthesizer use (CS-80 and the like) is much more restrained on HoL than it was even on Never For Ever. Kate is an exectpional pianist, and a master of the use of a Fairlight, but I've seen no evidence of any sort of exceptional synthesis on any of her stuff which can be attributed to more than excellent overall keyboard dexterity. Also, the album credits usually point to another musician when a 'real synthesizer' is included anyway. I do, I guess (I'm trying hard to be objective here) see how someone could believe that Hi-NRG music has too much synthesizer. Such an opinion can easily be explained by lack of understanding of fundamental concepts. If Hi-NRG is supposed to sound like it does then it has just the right amount of synthesizers. There is a general concept here, Hof, ANYTHING THAT SOUNDS THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED HAS THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF EVERYTHING IT HAS. Period. You can criticize the work, you can criticize the gendre, but saying that Hi-NRG sucks because it has too much synthesizer is the same as saying that Vivaldi's music sucks because it has too much violin. Hi-NRG would probably suck if it was played with congas and digeridus. Away from Hi-NRG and other pop styles where synth is prominent, there is a serious side of pop synthesis. Philip Glass, Tomita, Lary Fast are among the most easily mentioned examples of serious synthesists. Glass, being the most radical member of this set in that in the future, when Butthole Surfers are forgotten, Glass will probably be revered as a classical composer. In closing, synthesizers are instruments. They should be considered equally with their longer lived cousins. A musical composition, should not be evaluated based on the instruments with which it is played but on the time tested critical evaluations of the quality of the final product. Sh*t will sound like sh*t no matter what it is played on. Maybe if Coitus used more synths.... (sigh) John ------ [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 May 86 17:54:23 EDT From: nessus (Doug Alan) Subject: Re: Video Question re KB > [John Rossi:] > Were there any other video releases from the Dreaming other than > Suspended in Gaffa. More specifically, was there a video release of > the title track? Does anyone have information of any Laser Disk > video releases of Kate's stuff? Yeah, Kate Bush was one of the first people to do videos. She has done a video for every single she has released and then some. There is a compilation of her videos called "The Singles File". It contains videos for "Wuthering Heights", "The Man With The Child In His Eyes", "Them Heavy People", "Wow", "Hammer Horror", "Breathing", "Army Dreamers", "Babooshka", "Sat In Your Lap", "The Dreaming", "There Goes A Tenner", and "Suspended In Gaffa". Unfortunately, it was never released in the U.S. and is thus only available as a Japanese import. (I wouldn't play a British import video tape in my US VCR, and expect to see anything, if I were you). Price for video cassette: $75. (In England it sells for 19.99 Pounds). Price for laser disk: $29.99. The laser disk can be ordered from Instant Replay in Waltham, MA. They do mail order and their phone number is (617) 890-9262. "Kate Bush Live at the Hammersmith Odeon" is also available on laserdisk for $29.99. The video cassette of this *was* released in the US and is available for about $55. Regarding Kate and synths... Kate has said that personally she isn't overly-fond of synthesizers much. She thinks they sound too mechanical and artificial. She much prefers the organic sound and distorted reality sound of sampling keyboards. "Roxanne, you don't need to turn on the fair light" Doug [][][][][][][][][][] Subject: The better part of valor Date: Fri, 16 May 86 15:02:52 -0800 From: J. Peter Alfke * James Hofmann * Peter Alfke ...one of us is turning into Larry Palena, and I'm determined that it shall not be me. I have more to say on the subject of our argument, and in reply to some of the more personal accusations thrown at me, but I'm not going to say any of them. It's just not worth the time, neither to me nor (especially) to the other people reading this. Backing off was a technique that kept my face intact in high school, and I suppose it's time to re-use it now. Say what's necessary to appease them, but make sure they see the contempt on your face. I have enough self-respect to shut my mouth before things get out of hand. I hope Mr. Hofmann has the same. Sigh. 'Nuff said. --Peter Alfke alfke@csvax.caltech.edu [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 May 86 18:27:23 EDT From: nessus (Doug Alan) Subject: The Big Sky I talked to someone at EMI today and he said that "The Big Sky" is being released in the U.S. as a single on 5/28 and that a 12" is being released on 6/4. He says that the video is great (but this is the person who said that RuTH is just a bunch a ballet dancing, so we shall see...) He also said that he feels this song will revitalize sales of the album. "But I never go in now" Doug [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 May 86 15:59 PDT From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU Subject: Kate and the commercial In response to John's ominous predictions of Kate "selling out", let's set aside for the moment the fact that nobody can reasonably predict what Kate's next album will sound like before it is heard; and come instead to the question of what defines "selling out". The big mistake being made in Love-Hounds (and everywhere else, for that matter) is the confusion of "innovation" with "quality". The words are not synonymous. I am willing to concede that Hounds of Love was probably not as "daring" or "challenging", from a musical standpoint, as The Dreaming. This does not, however, by any means indicate that Hounds of Love is a "worse" album, even in reference to its musical content alone. The Dreaming is raw where Hounds of Love is polished. Kate may hone the jagged edge of her creative development to an even smoother finish in the future, or she may react against her recent tendency to perfect a fully developed style. This is a relatively insignificant matter, when one realizes that, whether partially accessible to a large and unconsidering public or not, whether rough or smooth in texture and effect, whether related to recognizably "commercial" musical idioms or not, it still cannot fail to be the best music of its time, because it will evolve out of the mind of Kate Bush. There are different ways of defining the nature of "progressive" music. Is Thursday Afternoon, Brian Eno's nth edition of non-commercial and highly sophisticated ambient music, really deserving of greater respect than Gabriel's unabashedly commercial new record, simply because Eno's work still bears hallmarks of an avant-garde sensibility, despite the inescapable fact of its similarity to Discreet Music, a recording of nearly ten years earlier? I don't particularly like Gabriel's venture into the musical idiom of Otis Redding, but I see no reason why his deliberate change of direction should be deplored, simply because the result is more palatable to the public. Should not the stagnant productions of a self-conscious avant-garde be deplored equally? For the same reason, I will argue, Ferry's latest -- and admittedly highly commercial, even cloyingly commercial -- record, is not to be regretted more than the recent work of his renegade colleague; there is, after all, in the tameness of "Is Your Love Strong Enough?", at least a sign of movement, evidence of a kind of creative development which Thursday Afternoon's rolling fields of arcane sound lack. Commerciality is not in itself proof of poor quality or low artistic value; conversely, an unswerving devotion to pre-conceived ideas of the "new" does not in itself gain admission into the neverland of the "good". So, as we recognize the audible signs of commercial finish in Hounds of Love, we should appreciate, as well, the novelty that such a finish can acquire, when born of a union of the commercial and -- Kate Bush. [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 May 86 12:22:44 EDT From: Nancy Everson Subject: KB & PG, and a Cure question Hi. This is the first time I have sent anything to Love-Hounds, so maybe I should say that I'm a recent convert to Kate Bush, but a bit fanatical (as converts tend to be). My tastes in music run heavily to the Cure, OMD, New Order, Echo & the B-men, and Elvis Costello. I heard the new Peter Gabriel/Kate Bush duet from _SO_ on the radio yesterday afternoon. I was at work, so I didn't listen to closely, but it was pretty. I think it will get lots of play on progressive easy listening stations everywhere. :-) Now, the real reason for my first posting, I finally got the cd of the Cure's _Seventeen Seconds_ yesterday, and noticed two "flaws". I was wondering if all the disks are this way, or if I should take it back for a replacement. The flaws: 1.) 2:22 into "M", the right channel drops out for a split-second. 2.) at the end of "Seventeen Seconds", the song ends apparently in the middle of a note, sort of like a careless person had been taping the song and turned off the recorder before the song was quite over. Otherwise, it sounds great. Are these problems found on other disks, or is it just this particular one? By the way, I happened to notice yesterday at the Harvard Square Newbury comics: the Kate Bush cd's are found directly behind the Jaques Brel cd's. I was amused, in light of recent LH discussions. - Nancy (everson@bbn-spca.arpa) (i don't know uucp) [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 May 86 9:52:33 EDT From: Hofmann@AMSAA.ARPA Subject: [davidl%tekgen.tek.csnet: Clearly,] Forwarded message ----------- From: davidl%tekgen.tek.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA this individual >1. What, Mr. Hoffman, is "Sarcastic Orgasm"? Have you heard of the >Dayglow Abortions? We got a record by them at WJHU. I swear, it >takes a lot to disgust me, but the cover of this album did it. It >depicts a cartoon Nancy and Ronald Reagan sitting down for a hearty >meal of foetus with vegetable sauce...urp. Noway was I going to put >that sucker on the turntable. has missed the ENTIRE point - which is, (1) the NEW Dayglo Abortions album, "Feed Us Foetus", only contains PART of their earlier release, "Out of the Womb", (2) I, God, do not HAVE a copy of this earlier release, and (3) I will do anything, including torture small children to death with a blowtorch, to get it. (I'm God, right? I ENJOY stuff like that). Anyone, particularly YOU, !hofmann, who hasn't heard "1967", which is at LEAST on that earlier release, hasn't heard the final word on 1960's... hey, face it - preppies think it's IN to hate anything punk (unless it's something "in" like the Replacements - but, then, they never were....... and NOW, they're just...... snicker....) (still lookin' fer that mushroom cloud...) >THIS IS REALLY PISSING ME OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Ruptured blood vessels split Why? I mean, it's FUNNY! That dork DJ is looking for somebody to agree with it - here's your chance to dismember it! OH, I forGOT - you've got a college-radio fixation. Hmmmmm..... WHY in the hell do you somehow EXPECT college radio in deGENeral to somehow rise above the norm of scummercial radio? I mean, after all, college radio is just a breeding ground for the next degeneration of teeny-pop wankoff DJ's. It's a miracle we get ANYthing out of it! SH*T, hofdorker - I took the TV antenna off the roof of my hovel and put up a high-gain FM antenna and I get ONE HARDCORE SHOW A WEEK from 90 miles away and that's ALL THE RADIO OR TV I GET ALL WEEK. I refused a free cable hookup when they ran the damned electronic sewer past my house. Like I said - you swim in the cesspool, you're gonna stink! >2. The Smifs should have a record out by the end of June. The title >has something to do with the Queen. I used to think they were God, >but that was just a passing craze. I'll still be interested in ' >hearing the new record, though. (note - it needs to be informed that God doesn't have the first Dayglo Abortions release, and might kill it just for fun, if he doesn't play the one IT'S got) HEY....... you KNOW, that station PROBABLY got that for FREEEeeeeee from Toxic Shock - if you really wanna raise hell, !hofdingler, you could call up Toxic Shock and explain the situation to them, and then mail them a copy of what he wrote, AND and and. Sh*t, you're into blithering nonsense about college radio, you oughta be UP for it. >4. I would like to pause and recommend a record to all love-hounders, >especially those who are into Suzanne Vega. The artiste is ANNA >DOMINO. Her voice and lyrics remind me of Suzanne, even though >there is no guitar on her self-titled LP, just out as an import on >Crepuscule. The music...well, Sade comes close only infinitely >cooler than that. It's a little jazzy. A fine, fine record. That cum-hounds list sure must be a cesspool,if there's anybody on it that's heard of this sh*t GET A HIGH-GAIN ANTENNA AND PUT IT ON YOUR ROOF, hofdorker. I'll even help you get it working if it'll make you quit wanking endlessly about crawledge radio... ----- End of forwarded messages [][][][][][][][][][] -- It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under. Greg Skinner (gregbo) {decvax!genrad, allegra, gatech, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds gds@eddie.mit.edu