Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site mit-eddie.MIT.EDU Path: utzoo!decvax!bellcore!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!gds From: gds@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Greg Skinner) Newsgroups: mod.music Subject: Love-Hounds Digest Message-ID: <2096@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU> Date: Sun, 25-May-86 02:01:08 EDT Article-I.D.: mit-eddi.2096 Posted: Sun May 25 02:01:08 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 25-May-86 15:11:32 EDT Organization: MIT Lusers and Hosers Inc., Cambridge, Ma. Lines: 402 Approved: gds@eddie.mit.edu Love-Hounds Digest Sunday, May 25, 1986, 02:03 EDT Topics: You can't back off now, Peter. In reply to Herr Rossi. . . IED IN MTV SOS PG Selling Out in style Robert Fripp gets married Dannielle Dax Cd Plants SO.... Hey, Krantz (a non Kate Bush person recommends) [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 19 May 86 9:00:11 EDT From: Hofmann@AMSAA.ARPA Subject: You can't back off now, Peter. Come on. You said you were a "post-modern" type of guy. Tell me just what you mean. What is "post-modern"? Just because you can't come up with a counter-argument doesn't mean this discussion can be interesting. Come on, guy. ---- Oh, as long as I'm here, Herr Rossi ... I said "obnoxious" not "overuse" Obnoxious ... tinpanschreechingrubberbandssoundsjustlikeeveryothersynth recording ... Obnoxious ... dink, dink. [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 19 May 86 12:28:43 EDT From: Young Adult in a Septic Tank Subject: In reply to Herr Rossi. . . Mr Rossi points out: >Unfortunately we also have people like Hof who want to cling to the safety of >conventional musical expression. Then he goes on to tell us... >Hi-NRG is supposed to sound like it does then it has just the right amount >of synthesizers. There is a general concept here, Hof, ANYTHING THAT SOUNDS >THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED HAS THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF EVERYTHING IT HAS. Period. >You can criticize the work, you can criticize the gendre, but saying that >Hi-NRG sucks because it has too much synthesizer is the same as saying that >Vivaldi's music sucks because it has too much violin. Hi-NRG would probably >suck if it was played with congas and digeridus. >Away from Hi-NRG and other pop styles where synth is prominent, there is a The point is this use of the synth has become VERY conventional - almost TOO conventional to the point of idiocy. (disco) I think the synth pop bands are among the most conventional ... I'm sorry, but is it wrong to find new ways to coax sounds out of guitars? Are guitars a dirty word among you electronic geniuses? Is *this* an example of "the empororer wears no clothes" ... is anyone going to confirm this or should I just wallow in my ignorance. >serious side of pop synthesis. Philip Glass, Tomita, Lary Fast are among >the most easily mentioned examples of serious synthesists. Glass, being >the most radical member of this set in that in the future, when Butthole >Surfers are forgotten, Glass will probably be revered as a classical composer. >In closing, synthesizers are instruments. They should be considered equally >with their longer lived cousins. A musical composition, should not be >evaluated based on the instruments with which it is played but on the time >tested critical evaluations of the quality of the final product. Sh*t >will sound like sh*t no matter what it is played on. When Glass is revered as a classical composer (or imposter) you shall be dead. So will Glass. Live for now I say ... I find The Butthole Surfers recent work alot more interesting than Glass's work. Maybe what all you "serious" art-rockers can't comprehend is that rock is a fad, a trend and any attempts to mangle it or compose it are fruitless and is a basic solitary indulgence. So, the Surfers won't be remember two generations hence - I'll certainly remember them long after I have forgotten Glass's recent work, that's for sure ... is that all that counts? When it comes to rock, hell yes! At least the Surfers don't rise to these prententions because as Neils Mayers goes, "it doesn't really matter (ad infin)..." I've heard Tomita and if he is a serious synthesists then why am I hold my guts in laughing at the mere mention of his name? By your defintion, John, serious synthesists are pretentious assholes. Again, I don't want to assume that P. Glass feels this way, only what Rossi said ... As for Chopin, Vivaldi et al ... their music is mildly interesting to me but really is devoid of any message ... it's a good showcase for "talented" musicians to show off and build their ego to tuxedoed audiences though. How cum people always fall asleep at these concerts, though? >Maybe if Coitus used more synths.... (sigh) I don't know about all this "time-tested" and "serious musical composition" arguments that permeate net.music and now this list? I think since it is nearly impossible for an artist to reach every person in the universe with his message that success can come if you've influenced/moved/been understood by at least one person. But the more the merrier. So don't feel bad as I understand alot of people enjoyed your music. By the time you're dead and revered/or spat upon - it won't matter, you won't be here to get your ego gratified/degraded. Unless of course, the geneticists are right and we live to be 300 years old. Ignorantly yours, James ---- p.s. I think all these putdowns of Larry Palena are classless and just as sexist and discriminatory as the worst of what I've seen. Even more so. The guy isn't here to defend himself - when you attack Tim for using the word "fag" at least he can defend himself... even if you do sound like the PMRC and all. [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 19 May 86 11:49 PDT From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU Subject: IED IN MTV SOS For self-therapeutic reasons I have decided to let everyone know that, in hopes of recording "The Big Sky" promo film, I have now watched nearly 13 hours of MTV. This has been a thoroughly depressing experience even in fast scanning speed. Iknow it sounds naive, but I simply cannot understand how the people who run that station can go to sleep at night, knowing what they do, how much bad taste they are responsible for. I don't mean to imply that I have any moral objection like the senators' wives, or anything like that -- but can someone explain to me how any self-respecting teen-ager (I assume the large majority of their audience are in their mid-teens) can submit to video after video of these bands of beefy men with elaborately coiffed hair and ludicrous electric guitars, strutting about in striped or leopard-spotted tights and wiggling in front of paid models? How many garish orange-and-blue lighting effects will the audience take without objection? For how long will they tolerate the exhibition of an endless succession of mindless, preening, narcissistic morons? And how many viewers have been really deluded into a belief that lip-synching is actually a live performance? If none, then why does lip-synching continue? I assume that Kate continues to do it out of an obligation to satisfy the demands of her business, but who in the business could still be convinced of the efficacy of lip-synching? It seems to me that whatever advantage gained from letting the original recording substitute for a potentially imperfect live performance of the music is more than offset by the ridiculous visual effect of lip-synching itself. Half the time now the performers don't even go through the minimal attempt at deception of holding a microphone. I'm down, L-Hs, I'm really down. And it's going to get worse as the days go by, as long as I have to keep watching that crud. [][][][][][][][][][] Posted-Date: 19 May 86 15:44:16 PDT (Mon) Subject: PG Selling Out in style Date: 19 May 86 15:44:16 PDT (Mon) From: tsung@aerospace.ARPA Caught the unmistakable Peter Gabriel voice in a strong-beat, simplistic, funky song on KROQ that will make those of you who didn't like "Sledgehammer" **FAINT**. It's a cut from "SO" called "Big Time". It has the same female chorus as in "Sledghammer" doing "Big time, big time" in the background throughout. Ah, but wait, seems like he's just having a ball. Here's some lyrics as I could make out (my ears apologizes to Mr. PG for screw-ups): The place where I come from Is a small town They think so small They use small words But not me I'm smarter than that I worked it out I'll be stretching my mouth To let those big words come right out I've had enough I'm getting out To the city, the big big city I'll be a big noise With all the big boys (So much stuff I will know) And I will pray to be good As I kneel in my big church I know my way I'm making it ... ... My party have all the big names And I greet them with the widest smile Tell'em how my life Is one big adventure (They all stood amazed) As I show them around my house ... And my heaven will be a big heaven And I will walk thru the front door (big time) I know my way I'm making it (big time, big time) I've got to make it show, yeah (big time, big time) So much larger than life (big time) I'm gonna watch it growing (big time, big time) My car's getting bigger My house's getting bigger ( --various other items getting bigger-- ) And my BANK ACCOUNT Look at my circumstance (something?) Big, big, big, big, big, big, big, .... big. Whew (thanks to my nimble fingers on the tape recorder). Anyway, music-wise we're talking Instant Top-10 contender here. "Sledgehammer" sounds like "The Dreaming" in comparison ... (ok, so I'm overreacting a little). At least now we know where those rumors come from. "Absolutely the BEST song I've heard in SOooooo long ... I can only wonder how Marvelous the 12" of that song's gonna be ... I suggest you go out and get that album 'cause it's Extra Wonderful." -- KROQ DJ Fu-Sheng [][][][][][][][][][] Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 May 86 11:33:05 EDT From: Susanne E Trowbridge Subject: Robert Fripp gets married Yesterday (5/15), Robert Fripp married British singer/actress Toyah Willcox. I thought someone, somewhere may be interested...it's supposedly still a big secret, but I have good sources for such gossip... Fripp is also producing Toyah's new album for EG Records. Anybody out there like Toyah? I've always thought her voice was like that of a second-rate KB, but she's done some good songs, notably "Dance" (that's "dahhnse"!) on the "Urgh" soundtrack... -Sue [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 May 86 23:08:56 edt From: John Kitamura Subject: Dannielle Dax Apparently-To: Love-Hounds Miss Dax was once a member of the Lemon Kittens who had one release (We Buy A Hammer For Daddy) on some independent British label. A track off of that album appeared on the Glass Sampler (so the album was probably on Glass Records, but I'm not sure), which is available from Wayside Music. She also sings on the original release of Robert Fripp's The League of Gentlemen album (though the track was removed off of the re-released version retitiled God Save the King), as well as creating the cover art on both that album and Fripp's Let the Power Fall album. That's all I know. John Kitamura UUCP: {decvax,linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,allegra,utzoo}!utcsri!kato [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat 17 May 86 16:05:58-EDT From: "Scott Frazier" Subject: Cd Plants Apparently-To: Love-Hounds There are currently 2 fully operational compact disc plants in the world at this time. One is owned by Sony/Epic and the other is owned by Warner Communications. When you see that a disc was made by another company, they have contracted one of the plants to make their CD's. I am not sure if there are other plants in production, but I do know that if Compact Disc ever catches on, the companies would LOVE to phase out vinyl. One of the claims to fame of this product is not in the disc itself, but in the case that your disc comes in. They are relatively cheap and they also won't break under any normal pressures that either shipping or storage could inflict. They do an excellent job of protecting your investment. If you buy a disc and the prongs that hold it inside are broken, you might consider taking it back. Swf [Jeez, I can't stand those tiny ugly little boxes that CDs come in! I wish they'd come in normal record jackets!!! -- Doug] [][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 20 May 86 04:00:14 EDT From: nessus (Doug Alan) Subject: SO.... 3 and a half years waiting for this! Sigh... maybe next time... Even Kate can't save "Don't Give Up" from being any more than mildly interesting. "Sledgehammer" and "Big Time" are the two best songs on the album, other than "Mercy Street", which is pretty good. The rest isn't all that commercial -- it's just kind of dull. The album has its moments, but this just isn't what you would expect from a God. At least nothing on the album is as bad as "Not This Time". Well, back to listening to Ministry and the Buttholes and Danielle and Kate sing "Breathing" at Comic Relief (the performance of this song is worth twice the 17 smackers it cost me for this album... sob, sob, sob...)... "one dream" Doug [][][][][][][][][][] Newsgroups: net.music Subject: Hey, Krantz (a non Kate Bush person recommends) Date: 19 May 86 20:13:07 GMT From: astroatc!gtaylor (oh...*Gregory* Taylor...never mind.) Apparently-To: Love-Hounds [This is something that Greg Taylor posted to net.music. I thought that some of the KB fanatics in Love-Hounds might want to see it and debate with Greg Taylor over whether or not *The Dreaming* is a Derridean mistake, whether or not KB is better than sliced bread, and whether or not KB will ever be able to top *The Dreaming*. (Nah, the reason why it's such a great album is because so many intense things were happening to Kate at once: she was learning how to use the Fairlight and the studio, she's was risking her career by taking full control of production, John Lennon had recently been killed, which shattered her, she was unhappy living in the city, she had to bounce from studio to studio and was getting uptight about all the money it was costing to record the album, and from the sound of "Get Out Of My House" was having relationship problems. This level of combination of events is unlikely to happen again. Miserable people make better music. Question: do we want Kate do be miserable so she'll come out with another album as good as *The Dreaming*? What a dillema!) --Doug] >>>> [mike krantz:] Perhaps I should investigate the music of this >>>> little Defender Of The Faith. > >>> [Doug:] You should! Hey, Krantz. Blow off all the other stuff and get "The Dreaming." Forget all the "who did it first, Peter Gabriel or Kate Bush?" nonsense. The albums are timbrally similar because of the Fairlight technology itself. Gabriel bought one first, but who gives a hoot. (Danger. Words of praise for Kate Bush) "the Dreaming" is a great album. As a whole, coherent piece of work, Ms. Bush will have to really work to do any better at all-kind of like Boz Scaggs. He should have simply quit after recording "Somebody Loan Me a Dime" with Duane Allman. Kate Bush is not, however, the greatest thing since sliced bread. She's okay, but hey. So is Professor Longhair, and he's DEAD. If you hate the Dreaming for how it sounds, go and hunt up either an earlier album of Doug's choice or Hounds. I think that you'll have missed what makes the Dreaming really good if you can't stand the way it sounds, though. I think that the Dreaming is a properly Derridean collision/mistake: Kate Bush crossed her sort of usual, precious, privatist, prog-rock poetic leanings with a Fairlight and made a beast that was bigger and more resonant than the sum of its parts. To the extent that the center of her music is essentially Egoistic (I'll do what I want), she *did* use the studio as an instrument...but I think that it used her, too. It is the sort of precious and rare fluke that you hope the marketplace produces again. I suspect that she'll spend the rest of her career trying to formalize what worked about the Dreaming, or trying to go back to her neo-Gothic stuff, and failing in what might be some interesting ways. Put it up on the list with Bob DYlan's "Blood on the Tracks" There. Is that enough bias for you? Trust me. Then go buy David Sylvian's "Brilliant Trees". Same sort of general thing. Ditto for Jan Gabarek's "aftenland" and..... -- "Dangerous? It's very dangerous. It's a liability nightmare. But this is California. You can do anything here." (-Mark Pauline of Survival Research Laboratories) Gregory Taylor/ ...uwvax!astroatc!gtaylor [][][][][][][][][][] -- It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under. Greg Skinner (gregbo) {decvax!genrad, allegra, gatech, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds gds@eddie.mit.edu