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From: andrews@ubc-cs.UUCP (Jamie Andrews)
Newsgroups: net.news.adm
Subject: Re: Junker
Message-ID: <289@ubc-cs.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 23-Jun-86 14:45:30 EDT
Article-I.D.: ubc-cs.289
Posted: Mon Jun 23 14:45:30 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 25-Jun-86 06:40:45 EDT
References: <282@ubc-cs.UUCP> <1509@brl-smoke.ARPA>
Reply-To: andrews@ubc-cs.UUCP (Jamie Andrews)
Organization: UBC Department of Computer Science, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Lines: 53

George Robbins:
>It's OK to limit your own internal costs, but it's far too easy for these
>mutilated articles to get back out on the net and interfere with the
>transmission of the intact article.

     The mutilated articles getting back out on the net is exactly what is
intended.  It's *transmission* costs it's trying to cut; the junked articles
pre-empt the longer, intact articles.

     I realize how strange the junker solution looks at first glance.
But if you look at it more closely, follow how junked articles would move
through the net, and predict the general effect it has on newsgroup
communities once it's accepted as part of the news system -- I think you'll
see that it can work, if we give it a chance.  And it *has* been implemented.

>Let's try to improve the net through some kind of generally acceptable
>administrative changes...

     I agree entirely.  I would prefer to see some administrative solution
to the volume problem, although I think a lot of admins would want to keep
junker around as a safety net.  Junker is one solution, prompted by my own
personal distaste for newsgroup cuts.  I encourage discussion of other,
*workable*, *detailed* solutions.


Will Martin:
>Does no one out there realize what a terribly bad idea this "junker"
>concept is? It is deliberately introducing transmission bugs into an
>already-fragile and problem-ridden system!

     The intent is that the article files be changed as transparently
as possible, with no effect on the other news software.  If anyone is
aware of any way in which this does not happen with junker 1.2, tell
me and I will incorporate the mods in 1.3.

>      ... the retransmission attempts as people try to get their
>articles sent in one piece, extra header overhead as people split long
>articles into several separate parts, and so on....

     Please read the "Information for Netters on Junker" which comes
in the shar package.  Such practices are discouraged, but even if they
go on, it will not increase volume, because junker's whole purpose is
to put a *ceiling* on volume.

>...It cannot possibly do any good. Why do not the rest of you see this clear
>fact?

     Maybe everyone is busy unshar'ing it, testing it, and looking at it
closely, rather than dismissing it out of hand.

--Jamie.
...!ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!andrews
"I believe in Santa Claus, and the DoD believes in Ada" -D.Parnas