Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!genrad!panda!husc6!harvard!topaz!uwvax!geowhiz!larry From: larry@geowhiz.UUCP (Larry McVoy) Newsgroups: net.decus,net.unix Subject: Re: Favorite operating systems query Message-ID: <454@geowhiz.UUCP> Date: Fri, 20-Jun-86 02:38:20 EDT Article-I.D.: geowhiz.454 Posted: Fri Jun 20 02:38:20 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 21-Jun-86 10:47:30 EDT References: <339@valid.UUCP> <452@geowhiz.UUCP> <2121@hammer.UUCP> Reply-To: larry@geowhiz.UUCP (Larry McVoy) Distribution: net Organization: UW Madison, Geology Dept. Lines: 41 Keywords: VMS, Multics, UNIX, fanaticism Xref: watmath net.decus:345 net.unix:8301 In article <2121@hammer.UUCP> tekecs!doghouse.TEK!snoopy (Snoopy) writes: >In article <452@geowhiz.UUCP> larry@geowhiz.UUCP (Larry McVoy) writes: > >>8) Robustness. VMS almost *never* crashes. Unix crashes all the time. > >If your machines are crashing "all the time", something is wrong, >but don't blame it on "Unix". OK, OK, I'll bite on some of the replies I've received. 1) There are a large number of fanatics out there who foam at the mouth when ever someone bad mouths Unix. Tough life. I have no sympathy for such. 2) I was wrong about VMS src, I guess they do release it - on microfiche unless you want to pay mega$$ for machine readable. Sorry. 3) In regards to Unix robustness - I'll make you all a challenge: I'll bet I can take a commercially available Unix (BSD based, I don't play w/ AT&T & they don't play w/ me) and find twice as many ways to screw it up as you could in VMS. This means anything from kernel bugs to application bugs. The point is that Unix systems are hacked together things which work most of the time; you learn real fast which buttons not push. In VMS they took those buttons away. It's a much more solid product. 4) Crashing: You bet it crashes. Until you fix the bugs. Even the people who denied this said that if you added this or pushed that or diddled the other thing it would crash. Like I said, it crashes all the time. Look at the list of bugs *known* about BSD Unix. Look at tektronix, they claimed to have a port of 4.2 with over **2000** bug fixes. 2,000??? In a distribution version of Unix? Come on. At CS here it took them 6 months to a year to get 4.2 to the point that it didn't crash each time the load got to 20 on a 780 (I know, I used that vax during the "fixing" period). -- Larry McVoy ----------- Arpa: mcvoy@rsch.wisc.edu Uucp: {seismo, topaz, harvard, ihnp4}!uwvax!geowhiz!larry "Just remember, wherever you go -- there you are." -Buckaroo Banzai