Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!caip!sri-spam!nike!lll-crg!lll-lcc!dual!ucbvax!SRI-STRIPE.ARPA!JMYERS From: JMYERS@SRI-STRIPE.ARPA (John Myers) Newsgroups: mod.ai Subject: Re: AIList Digest V4 #166 Message-ID: <8607182114.AA00592@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 16-Jul-86 19:56:49 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8607182114.AA00592 Posted: Wed Jul 16 19:56:49 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 20-Jul-86 03:55:38 EDT References: Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 27 Approved: ailist@sri-ai.arpa I do not believe a concept of self is required for perception of objects. Concepts needed for the perception of objects include temporal consistency, directional location, and differentiation; semantic labeling (i.e., "meaning" or "naming") is also useful. None of these require the concept of a self who is doing the perceiving. The robots I work with have no concept of self, and yet they are quite successful at perceiving objects in the world, constructing an internal world model of the objects, and manipulating these objects using the model. (Note that a "world model" consists of objects' locations and names--temporal consistency is assumed, and differentiation is implicit. Superior world models include spatial extent and perceptual features.) I would argue that they are moving by "reflex"--without true understanding of the "meaning" of their motions--but they certainly are able to truly perceive the world around them. I believe lower-level life-forms (such as amoebas, perhaps ants) work in the same manner. When such-and-such happens in the world, run program FOO which makes certain motions with the effectors, which (happens to) result in "useful things" getting accomplished. I think this describes what most of consciousness is: (1) being able to perceive things in the environment, (2) knowing the meaning of these things, and (3) being able to respond in an appropriate manner. Notice that all of these concepts are vague; different degrees of 1,2,3 represent different degrees of consciousness. Self-consciousness is more than consciousness. The concept of self is not required for conscious beings, and it certainly is not required for perception. John Myers~~ -------