Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!lll-crg!mordor!sri-spam!nike!ucbcad!ucbvax!mtune.UUCP!jhc From: jhc@mtune.UUCP Newsgroups: mod.computers.workstations Subject: Yet more commentary on the AT&T Unix PC Message-ID: <8607250250.AA17423@topaz.rutgers.edu> Date: Thu, 24-Jul-86 22:50:46 EDT Article-I.D.: topaz.8607250250.AA17423 Posted: Thu Jul 24 22:50:46 1986 Date-Received: Fri, 25-Jul-86 06:31:55 EDT References: <860718040226.0000193F.ADWR.AA@UMass> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: mtune!jhc (Jonathan Clark) Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 89 Approved: works@red.rutgers.edu Continuing the discussion with Stephen Halpin (Squonk@UMass) about the AT&T UNIX PC... I have tried to give some context to my replies. For the scenario described (~30MB of database) one would indeed want a tape backup unit. Forgive my ignorance, is $2K a lot for such an item? Ethernet interface: I hear that this is in beta. Or close to it. No dates yet. Your figures (5-user system = 2 expansion slots taken up) are correct, unless you count 2 users between 1 screen and 2 phone lines. No? I didn't think so. I will happily 'not comment' on an expansion box. Actually I have no idea about any manufacturing plans for such an item. >Is the cheaper non-AT&T 40M drive in the 7300 that AT&T is willing >to sell me certified and will it be covered by the maintenance >contract? The fact that you need a new motherboard is news to me. >Knowing that 256k parts would be coming out (even BYTE suggested >AT&T would just pop in the 256k parts) it seems rather short sighted >not to include that in the design. I was wrong - you do not get a new motherboard. The drive is indeed certified (as far as I am aware AT&T does not make any disk drives). I cannot disagree about the many examples of 'short-sightedness' in the design. >The demonstration system I worked with was a 7300 with 1M ram, 20M >disk, and an VT100. When I was on the VT100 I wasnt able to use the >telephone functions to dial out. I also found entering 1 for >function key one to be a minor annoyance. If you want to take >advantage of the graphics and mouse capablities you will need >something a little more advanced than a VT100.. I have heard of a 'dumb terminal' which looks and feels like a unix pc screen/keyboard but which works transparently. I can't remember whether this is real or not, though. (No, honestly, I really can't!) Re the 6300+ versus the unix pc: Bruce Burger put it very well when he said that the difference between them was that the unix pc was a unix engine that happened to be able to run MSDOS, and the 6300+ was an MSDOS engine which happened to be able to run unix. Having used both fairly extensively I would agree. >I still say that for a reduced price it could have sold very well as >a micro.. By 'micro' *I* mean something like an Apple 2 or some other home and games-oriented system. The daughter of a friend of mine (~7 years old) was showing a unix pc off to her friends. When asked 'Where's the colours, where's the game board' she replied "Oh, this isn't one of *those* computers, this is one that a bunch of men use at work!". We did remind her not to be sexist... If by 'micro' you mean (effectively) an IBM PC then I would reply that *nothing* competes with an IBM PC. Putting a machine up against an IBM offering generally results in getting stomped by Big Blue. >~~~~~~~~~~ <> Whooo! asbestos time. >Its my less than humble opinion that its a rediculous waste running >a multiuser micro. I absolutely agree. >Silicon is too cheap now to worry about running a CPU 100% of the >time. I can get 68000L8s qty1 for under $10. I can get 1M of 150ns >RAM for under $100 (these out of BYTE). The Unix PCs most >significant resources (graphics and phone interface) arent REALLY >sharable. Why buy a system that shortchanges 4 out of 5 users when >the technology is there to give them a full 'workstation' of their >own.. I tend to agree, but am less confident of AT&T's, or any other non-garage operation's, ability to provide such a 'workstation' at the same price. Remember, board cost runs about 4-5 times parts cost, and system cost is 3-4 times board costs. My strictly personal opinion is that as a System V UNIX engine the unix pc is a bit expensive, a bit late, and very short of peripherals. Of course, for the VAR/ISV market that the machine is at least partially aimed at nobody really cares that the 2-n'th users don't have all the goodies because it is being sold as a single-user station with electric mail capabilities. For the office automation market exactly the opposite is the case. Trying to reconcile these two markets does not sound easy to me. -- Jonathan Clark [NAC,attmail]!mtune!jhc My walk has become rather more silly lately.