Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbatt!cbosgd!ihnp4!drutx!druxo!crg From: crg@druxo.UUCP (GenterCR) Newsgroups: net.analog,net.audio Subject: Re: Cables Message-ID: <126@druxo.UUCP> Date: Fri, 18-Jul-86 18:14:20 EDT Article-I.D.: druxo.126 Posted: Fri Jul 18 18:14:20 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 20-Jul-86 05:15:56 EDT References: <1383@voder.UUCP> Distribution: na Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Denver, Co Lines: 116 Keywords: Cables Xref: watmath net.analog:958 net.audio:9034 Summary: More on cables > > >I spent several hours auditioning cables this last weekend and was really > >amazed. > >John Irwin (jdi@ucbvax) > > I'm sorry John, but frankly I can't hear the difference between cables, at > least not speaker cables. Does anyone out there know of a single reason > why these expensive cables should sound better? If Mark will forgive me, I have re-posted his article on impedence vs. frequency differences. This is an interesting article from the perspective of the amount of flames it DIDN'T receive: when it was demonstrated that skin effect was insignificant at audio frequencies there were a flurry of "told-you-so, cables don't make a difference" articles posted. I am awaiting the responses from these folks disputing Marks measurements. My own opinion on cables: the right cable on the right system can make an awesome improvement in the sound quality (both speaker and interconnects), and the only way to decide is to audition them at home, on your own system. I have had some very well respected cables on my home system that sounded terrible, but worked fine elsewhere, and vis versa. The great cable debate was properly put to rest a short time back with the following statement, which applies to every piece of audio gear: If you can't hear the difference, don't buy it. And flamers, please note: A proper, appropriate, and useful response to the net is to say that with such-and-such equipment, I was unable to hear a difference: NOT that since on my system I couldn't hear a difference, that nobody will ever hear a difference. The former tells me that if I have similar quality equipment it is probably not worth my time to audition cables: the latter tells me a little about the maturity of the poster, but certainly nothing about audio. (I guess I better practice what I preach: my system consists of a SOTA Sapphire, Accuphase AC-2, Sumiko headshell, Dynavector 501 arm, 1-m Reference Interlink, Denon POA-2000 pre-amp, 15-m Original Interlink, Acoustat Model III with Medallion Interfaces and the large RH-labs subwoffer. The Acoustats are passively crossed at 100 Hz (12 db/octave), and the RH is activly crossed (RH Labs ABX-4) at 100 Hz (36 db/octave). Amplifiers are a NYAL Moscode 600 (500 Watts/channel) on the Acoustats and a strapped Denon PRA-3000 (800 Watts, Class A) on the RH. Speaker cables are three 2-m sections of Moster Cable Powerline 2. There is also a B&O 9000 Cassette Deck and a JVC 566 HQ VCR hanging around the edges, with an Advent 6 foot projection TV centered between the Acoustats. Reference Interlink into the B&O, all other cables Original Interlink.) > OK tech weenies, here are some MEASURED impedances vs frequencies for some > real audio cables on the market. These are measurements done with a > HP 4192A Impedance Analyzer by Elite Electronic Engineering Co., Dowers > Grove, IL. They are not numbers generated by computer programs or pulled > out of a textbook. These are all cables you can buy. I'm quantizing the > numbers off plots published by Straightwire on some lit. I got at CES. > 2 Meter Interconnects (Impedance in ohms) > Brand 5khz 10khz 15khz 20khz > Randall .012 .040 .067 .114 > Interlink Ref A .010 .036 .063 .103 > VanDenHul .006 .026 .046 .087 > Distech .004 .018 .032 .050 > Flexconnect .004 .009 .014 .021 > LSI connect .000 .002 .003 .005 > 10 foot speaker cables (Impedance in ohms) > Brand 5khz 10khz 15khz 20khz > Monster Cable .040 .101 .155 > (off chart) > Monster PL II .033 .087 .144 > > MIT MH-750 .025 .074 .122 .162 > Livewire 10 .012 .045 .078 .109 > Randall 64TBC .004 .011 .017 .028 > Teflon-12 .002 .008 .015 .025 > MusicRibbon12 .001 .005 .008 .013 > Music Ribbon, Teflon-12, Flexconnect, and LSI connect are all Straightwire > products and usually cost much less than the competition. No additional > information on the test set-up was given. I use flexconnects, but I > didn't like their speaker wire. The Music Ribbon rolled off the bass, > and it and the Teflon-12 were bright, fast and lacked midrange harmonic > body, and warmth compared to my FMS speaker wires and also Monster PL II. > The flexconnect looks like a thin coax. Teflon-12 is a heavier coax using > cylindrical conductors and a teflon dielectric - probably similar geometry > to Neglex/Mogami speaker wire. The Music Ribbon is either 12 or 24 conductor > ribbon (computer) cable. The difference is that the insulating dielectric > is polypropelene and not PVC. Music Ribbon sounds and measures differently > depending upon which conductors you connect together to form a pair. > Some quotes in the literature: > "Cables tend to accentuate the portion of the spectrum where their impedance > begins to rise, while higher frequencies are attenuated. This alteration of > harmonic structure and the attendant masking of quiet information are the > result of phase-shifted musical energy filling in the space between notes. > Phase-shift also tends to make transients sound louder because their > duration is increased." > "Note that deviation of series impedance is caused by skin effect and > inductance." > Straight Wire can be reached at PO Box 78, Hollywood, FL 33022, > (305) 925-2470 > Mark Kaepplein decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!kaepplein Forgive me Mark C. Roy Genter AT&T Information Systems 11900 N. Pecos St. Denver, Co 80234 inhp4!druxo!crg 303-538-4854