Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!convex!ndm20!tp
From: tp@ndm20
Newsgroups: net.followup
Subject: Re: American Indians - Persecution of?
Message-ID: <33200005@ndm20>
Date: Mon, 14-Jul-86 17:02:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: ndm20.33200005
Posted: Mon Jul 14 17:02:00 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 17-Jul-86 05:21:26 EDT
References: <688@argon.idec.stc.co.uk>
Lines: 58
Nf-ID: #R:argon.idec.stc.co.uk:688:ndm20:33200005:000:2776
Nf-From: ndm20!tp    Jul 14 16:02:00 1986


[[Statement by me that afirmative action is discriminatory to white
males.]]

[Statement by Barry that in the past there has been hiring
discrimination against those who were not white males.] 

[Discussion of discriminatory hiring practices Barry has observed]

Your solution to past discrimination  is to  now discriminate against
the same minority group that was previously doing the discrimination?
(If  you add  it all  up, I  believe you  will find  that white males
between 18 and 40 that are protestants (christians?)   are a minority
also.)    When  do we  call the  score even?   When  can fairness and
competency be adopted as criteria instead of quotas of religion, sex,
skin color, and heritage.  

I neither defend or agree with the practices you describe.   They are
now illegal.   Affirmative action  is the  same thing  with the roles
reversed.  It should also be illegal.   My  employer employes several
people  in  minority groups.   Not  because they  are minorities, but
because they are competent.  That is the way it should be.  

>This sort of thinking stems from a zero-based philosophy, that the
>pie is just so big and can be only cut thinner and thinner, wrong,

Wrong.  This sort of thinking stems  from a  hatred of discrimination
and an attitude  that everybody  should be  given an  equal chance to
succeed.  Think the United Negro College Fund  would have  given me a
scholarship?  Not a chance.  Think that if I created the United White
Boys College Fund, the ACLU would drag my butt into court.   You Bet!
(And rightly so, I might add.)  

I  believe  in  EQUAL opportunity.   I  could have  chosen to legally
change my surname to my mother's maiden name (Rodriguez).   There are
any number  of government  and private  agencies who  would have been
very pleased to  pay my  way through  college (like  my friend, whose
surname is Nogueras).  But Poot is Dutch, and the Dutch  aren't a big
enough minority to need help, right?  This is fair?  Any given person
with a hispanic surname might be more or less intelligent  or more or
less in need than me.  What should his last name have to  do with it?
If  you are  trying to  help the  poor, then  a need  basis should be
sufficient.  Poor white people have  a very  difficult time obtaining
help in many situations (such as this one).   Unless  of course their
parents are veterans...  

>
>	-Barry Shein, Boston University
>
>Sorry for the length of this, but this sort of myopia gets me
>annoyed.

I  don't  understand  how  believing  in  equal  opportunity  but not
affirmative action is myopic.  Send me e-mail  explaining this please
(not really appropriate here).

Do other  contries have  similar problems?   What  policies have been
adopted in your countries?  (I'm really curious.)