Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!caip!im4u!ut-sally!husc6!yale!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!hplabs!tektronix!uw-beaver!cornell!batcomputer!cheryl From: cheryl@batcomputer.UUCP Newsgroups: net.women,net.sci Subject: Re: Why are there so few [female|black] physicists? Message-ID: <666@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU> Date: Mon, 21-Jul-86 12:13:51 EDT Article-I.D.: batcompu.666 Posted: Mon Jul 21 12:13:51 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 23-Jul-86 07:17:21 EDT References: <1970@brl-smoke.ARPA> <320@rtech.UUCP> Reply-To: cheryl@batcomputer.UUCP (cheryl) Organization: Theory Center, Cornell University, Ithaca NY Lines: 45 Xref: watmath net.women:11491 net.sci:1331 In article <638@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU> hsgj@batcomputer.UUCP (Dan Green) writes: >In article <502@midas.UUCP> jeffw@midas.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) writes: >>All very righteous and high-minded, but would you really feel just as >>insulted if you were given a chance you didn't deserve as you would if >>you were denied a chance you deserved? I sure wouldn't, and I would be >>very skeptical of anyone else saying they would. The original discussion centered on was about the differences in the treatment of individuals at a time when they are to make themselves qualified--in school. The question is really "why are there so few *explicitly qualified to do* ?" Therefore, when Jeff says "given a chance" he is not referring to being handed a job, but rather to being given an educational opportunity, or the benefit of the doubt in a dubious situation--much to the same degree that white males are given the benfit of the doubt if their parents are rich and/or famous. (The ole correlation between parents' income and "success") What does a degree from an Ivy mean if all you need to get in is money? > Would you? I sure as hell wouldn't take a job that I wasn't qualified >for. You can't fool people for long if you're ignorant, and all you'll >end up doing is making yourself look stupid. Since this is a "why aren't >there many (minority) so-and-so's" discussion, if you are a minority and >you take a job that you are unqualified for, you not only make yourself >look bad, you make your race look bad. You get the old "see, I told you >that we shouldn't have hired that (place your favorite minority here)! " Have you read any of the original articles? Are you sure you're not jumping into the middle of a discussion that you have not really been following? Several others have also taken the subject line to make this a discusssion of AA when the topic was originally a discussion of how people are negatively influenced against excelling in math and physics specifically during the stage of gathering qualifications and credentials, not how they are treated once they have established those qualifications and credentials. Cheryl --- A man and his son are in an accident. The man dies and the son goes to the hospital. At the hospital, the doctor walks in and says, "I can't operate on this boy. He is my son."