Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84; site mhuxr.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mfs From: mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (Damballah Wedo) Newsgroups: net.women,net.sci Subject: Re: Why are there so few [female|black] physicists? Message-ID: <639@mhuxr.UUCP> Date: Sun, 27-Jul-86 11:23:51 EDT Article-I.D.: mhuxr.639 Posted: Sun Jul 27 11:23:51 1986 Date-Received: Mon, 28-Jul-86 05:52:33 EDT References: <1970@brl-smoke.ARPA> <320@rtech.UUCP> Organization: The Poto Mitan in the Houmfor Lines: 44 Xref: watmath net.women:11630 net.sci:1381 > Similar situations happen in colleges and universities. The emphasis nowadays > is on `enrollment and retention', a euphamism for admitting as many targeted- > group students as possible, then making sure that they stay as long as > possible. ... > ..... such a 5 year student counts 5/4 as much as a 4 year student > in figuring quotas). The result is that the really well qualified student > who would have gotten in and succeeded anyway to feel inferior because of > his/her race/sex. The presence of a large number of `quota admits' lowers > the college community's perception of the student's race/sex, thus causing > others to see him/her less favorably than a student from a non-targeted > group. Those who are the actual `quota admits' would face the same prejudice, > but also would likely receive an education of marginal value (the easiest > major and course selection). I don't know where you get your figures, but at the school I attended (Stevens Tech, Hoboken, NJ) there were minority students who were encouraged to enroll despite slightly lower high school scores. These students were required to attend remedial classes the summer before freshman year, and received additional tutoring during freshman year. They most emphatically were not steered into easier majors (unless you consider chemical engineering, say, easier than computer science) and they took the same classes as the rest of the student body (the Stevens curriculum is so structured that all the engineering students take pretty much the same courses until junior year.) Some of these students flunked out, some were average, and some were *outstanding*, not much different from the rest of the stdent body. As for whether the extra tutoring is unfair, tutoring was available to all students, and required of those who received a GPA of less than 2.0 after the first semester of freshman year. The tutoring was the same; indeed the tutors were often the same; I know, I was a tutor in both programs. Finally, the situation you speak about is not much different than that practiced at some schools, including the Ivies: student (of whatever race or sex) does not really have the grades, but in the admission form essay or in interviews displays original thinking. The school thinks this may be a late bloomer, or someone not very good at taking tests. School gives student benefit of the doubt, admits student. This is common practice, especially at top schools, has been for a long time. Do you object to that also? -- Marcel-Franck Simon ihnp4!{mhuxr, hl3b5b}!mfs On or about August 1, I will no longer have access to mhuxr and hence the net. If you want to reply, comment, disagree, rebut or flame, do so quickly, or send email to hl3b5b.