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From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: net.sci,net.politics
Subject: Re: privatization of education
Message-ID: <963@kontron.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 31-Jul-86 18:26:06 EDT
Article-I.D.: kontron.963
Posted: Thu Jul 31 18:26:06 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 2-Aug-86 06:19:47 EDT
References: <3719@decwrl.DEC.COM> <136@cci632.UUCP> <1314@psivax.UUCP> <2413@brl-smoke.ARPA> <2777@sdcc6.ucsd.EDU>
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Mt. View, CA
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Xref: watmath net.sci:1421 net.politics:17916

> In article <2413@brl-smoke.ARPA>, gwyn@brl-smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) writes:
> Our society has a conception of children as more than the property of their
> parents.    We view them as human beings with certain rights.  One of the
> rights is a right to an education.  
> 

Gee, where is this "right to an education" defined?  It didn't seem be to
case when I was trying to get an education in the 1970s.  (Of course, I
was poverty class white -- and all good liberals know that such things
don't exist.)

> A child should not be punished because fate decreed that she be born
> the daughter of an alcoholic, a criminal, an honest hard working person who 
> is having financial problems, a member of a discriminated minority, a retarded
> person, or a middle-class business man who would rather spend his money on 
> improvements to his house or a new yacht than on his children's education.
> 

You assume that only the government, in its beneficience, would educate
a person coming from such a background.  This is hardly the case.  There
have ALWAYS been organizations offering scholarships based on need --
but most of them wanted evidence of educational potential (hence the
term, "scholarship").  This all changed in the 1970s, when for a while
the only issue that mattered was race.

> 
> Beyond this conception of children's basic right to an education, there are
> "non-spurious" pragmatic concerns.  A democracy depends on educated 
> citizens; our society requires that people have at least some ability to read
> street signs and grocery prices, and to fill out tax forms and rent agreements.
> 

A valid argument -- but since the government has largely failed, in
fact, created a generation less educated, but with more years of 
schooling, than the previous generation, it is worth considering if
there is a better way to educate the population adequately for
the responsibilities of citizenship.

> Admittedly, I can see why it might be convenient to have a large uneducated
> class of people:  this class would provide cheap unskilled labor, would
> pay rent rather than owning property, and would be unlikely to vote, thus
> allowing laws to continue to support the educated and exploitative elite.
> -----
> Cathy Harris, UCSD cognitive science

The current subsidies to state universities are a transfer of wealth from
working class families to middle and upper class families.  Yes, there
are kids from working class backgrounds attending University of California,
but the majority are from families that could afford to pay their own
way.  The practical requirements of making a living, and contributing to
the financial obligations of the family make it quite difficult for
working class and poverty class kids to attend college full-time.  (And
the University of California requires (or at least did when I was trying
to get a degree) that you finish your last year full-time.  Don't have
rich parents to help you out -- get out of here!)

Second, remember that the requirements of UC (and most other good
schools) make it unlikely that kids from economically deprived back-
grounds will be able to enter.  Even if allowed in under special
admission policies, many, if not most, are inadequately prepared for
UC, and drop out within the first year.  THEIR INADEQUATE PREPARATION
IS PARTLY EARLIER EDUCATION, AND PARTLY THE CULTURAL DEPRIVATION OF
GROWING UP POOR.

The University of California (through taxes) sucked my parents dry of 
money to subsidize the education of people from middle-class and above
families, so they were unable to provide any help to me.

I don't care if the University of California exists next year or not.

Clayton E. Cramer ("You are damn right I'm upset.")