Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!OHIO-STATE.ARPA!testa-j%osu-20 From: testa-j%osu-20@OHIO-STATE.ARPA Newsgroups: mod.politics Subject: Re: Good English Message-ID: <12229620281.51.MCGREW@RED.RUTGERS.EDU> Date: Sun, 10-Aug-86 03:10:38 EDT Article-I.D.: RED.12229620281.51.MCGREW Posted: Sun Aug 10 03:10:38 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Aug-86 06:07:37 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: testa-j%osu-20@ohio-state.arpa Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 59 Approved: poli-sci@red.rutgers.edu >From: "Keith F. Lynch" > > From: ~joe testa~ > > Who says that the English spoken by "inner city types" is worse than > that spoken by anyone else?!?! > > The great majority of potential employers, that's who. Also, the >great majority of teachers, professors, professional people, etc. > If these people are to participate in a major way in the economic >and political life of our country, they had better learn to talk >straight. Yes, yes, yes. I agree that, to function effectively in this country, one must speak the "standard" American English (for the region you're living in). My objection to the "tone" of your statement (is that possible in written communication??) is that similar statements are often used to argue that the "inner city types" are somehow inferior to everyone else. Since "inner city types" often means "blacks", such statements are often used to argue "blacks are inherently inferior to whites", when in fact it's just the crummy environment they grew up in that hasn't provided them with a decent education. Even if that's not what you meant ( and i have no reason to believe that it is ), that's the way that some other people will interpret it. > Different, yes. > > Are you sure it isn't objectively worse? Can it convey the same >thoughts? Can classes in physics, mathematics, history, and business >be conducted in it? Can the professions of banking, programming, >law, and medicine be conducted in it? Is it a legitimate language >like Spanish or Japanese? Sure, if people in the inner city had learned enough physics or math... Depends what you mean by "worse". Since not too much computer programming, medicine, law, etc. is practiced by inner-city residents, there is no need for their language to be able to convey such concepts. That doesn't make it an "illegitimate" language, just as some obscure language spoken by some people on a South Pacific island isn't illegitimate. Also, remember that many of the "legitimate" languages -- whichever ones those are -- often do not have the proper words for certain things or concepts, so they borrow them from other languages. > Or is it a collection of slang and gutter talk, >only able to coherently convey thoughts of sex, gambling, violence, >crime, and drugs? > ...Keith I suspect that, at this, it might be MORE effective than standard english :-) - joe testa - ------- -------