Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!lll-crg!mordor!sri-spam!nike!ucbcad!ucbvax!ICSD.UCI.EDU!tim From: tim@ICSD.UCI.EDU Newsgroups: mod.politics Subject: Communities Message-ID: <12228295466.23.MCGREW@RED.RUTGERS.EDU> Date: Tue, 5-Aug-86 01:53:12 EDT Article-I.D.: RED.12228295466.23.MCGREW Posted: Tue Aug 5 01:53:12 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 5-Aug-86 23:10:37 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: tim@icsd.uci.edu Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 46 Approved: poli-sci@red.rutgers.edu >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 86 22:30:25 EDT >From: "Keith F. Lynch" >Subject: Technology, wealth, and liberty > I assume you mean governments, not communities. There is no such >thing as a community, only individuals, governments, and various >voluntary organizations. Community (ka-mu'-na-ti) n. a locality where people reside; people having common interests; the public, or people in general; common possession or enjoyment (L. communis) (Webster's Dictionary, 1966 edition) Taking the above definition, it is OBVIOUS that communities (in some senses of the word) exist. I don't think you'd dispute the first meaning listed (localities). It is the other meanings I'd like to deal with here: People frequently bind together in groups sharing common interests. I assert that there are two types of such groups: voluntary communities, and involuntary communities. Voluntary communities (using the definition above) are any collection of people sharing common interests. It thus makes sense to speak of the community of people who read POLI-SCI, or the community which supports US space efforts. I assume that this is parallel to the "voluntary organizations" in your message. The point where I disagree with you is the existence of involuntary communities. An involuntary community is one in which the alternative to participation is the loss of highly valued personal attributes, such as life, personal liberty (lost through imprisonment), etc. Such communities exist. One example is the community of citizens. One can move between parts of this community (by changing allegiance from one government to another) but one cannot choose to abstain from participating in this community (be the citizen of no country, to the point of refusing to obey any country's laws at will) without suffering substantial penalties. Involuntary communities exist because it is deemed desirable to absolutely forbid certain types of behavior. Whether or not they SHOULD exist is open to debate. The fact that they DO exist is not an issue. As always, I await your thoughtful reply. Tim -------