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From: curt@hoptoad.uucp (Curt Mayer)
Newsgroups: talk.religion,net.religion
Subject: Re: Hell (An Alienation from God?  No.)
Message-ID: <1062@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: Fri, 5-Sep-86 22:54:10 EDT
Article-I.D.: hoptoad.1062
Posted: Fri Sep  5 22:54:10 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 9-Sep-86 05:32:12 EDT
References: <322@mc0.UUCP> <977@unirot.UUCP> <973@hoptoad.uucp>
Reply-To: curt@hoptoad.UUCP (Curt Mayer)
Organization: Warm Dirt, Inc.
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Xref: linus talk.religion:64 net.religion:10738

In article <4257@ukma.UUCP> slg@ukma.UUCP (Sean Gilley) writes:
>
>There has been a lot of discussion recently about whether or not
>Hell is simply an alienation from God, or whether it is an actual
>punishment.
>
>Charles Hedrick quotes a number of people and sermons and seems to say
>that it is an alienation from God.
>...
>The arguments he presents say that the punishment is God's being
>unhappy with you and the fact that you an then forever away from the
>presence of the Lord.
>
>Sorry.  It doesn't work that way.  The Bible explicitly states that there
>will be those in eternal physical agony.  Try Revelation 14:10-11:
>
>     ``He will be tormented with burning sulfer in the presence of
>       the Holy Angels and the Lamb.''
>
>or Revelation 20:15:
>
>     ``If anyone's name was not found in the book of life he was
>       thrown into the lake of fire.''
>
>or (even more explicitly) Revelation 16:10-11:
>
>     ``...men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of
>       Heaven because of their pains and their sores...''
>
>Now, you're going to read these passages and *still* tell me that the
>unrepentant sinners will not suffer eternal tortures and agony?
>(All references are from the Gideon Bible, 1975 ed., copyr 1978.)

but you forget that saint john the mushroom-head was coming down
from a rancid margarine trip when he wrote those immortal words.

can you say symbol? i knew you could. in revelation, there are oodles of
stuff that are obviously symbolic, but you decide to draw the line here
to try to scare the bejeezus out of 7 year olds in sunday school.

I am firmly convinced that jesus of nazareth was a happening kind of guy
that had a kind heart and got nailed to a tree. 

on the other hand, paul was a nasty shit who twisted the words of a good man
to his economic and egotistical advantage and he didn't even do that well
enough to avoid getting kilt.

the first 4 books of the New Testament make me feel warm and good, but the last
of them are just totally transparent scare tactics.

	curt
-----
Bleeding head good, healed head bad.