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From: za56@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU (Brian McNeill)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: resurrection (really, what's a true Christian?)
Message-ID: <3581@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU>
Date: Sat, 13-Sep-86 15:36:46 EDT
Article-I.D.: sdcc3.3581
Posted: Sat Sep 13 15:36:46 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Sep-86 07:31:33 EDT
References: <300c5aae.33cd@apollo.uucp>
Reply-To: za56@sdcc3.UUCP (Brian McNeill)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc
Distribution: net.religion.christian,talk.religion
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center
Lines: 84
Keywords: na
Summary: Circularity (OH NO, NOT AGAIN!)

In article <300c5aae.33cd@apollo.uucp> maggie@apollo.uucp (Margaret Daniel) writes:
>
>
>For example...Dr. Simon Greenleaf, professor of law at Harvard University, 
>recognized by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court to be the greatest
>authority on legal evidence who has ever lived, did a detailed study of the 
>findings relating to the resurrection of Christ. He concluded that, in any 
>unbiased courtroom in the world, the evidence would fully establish the fact 
>that Jesus was resurrected from the dead. Some of the hard facts that led to 
>his conclusion: 
>
>  -- the empty tomb
>  -- the 500 people who saw the resurrected Christ
>  -- the radically-changed lives of the disciples 
>  -- the disciples' willingness to die for their faith
>  -- the birth and growth of the church
>
>There is simply no fully satisfying, truly adequate explanation for these 
>known facts except the resurrection. Of course, you may attempt to supply 
>other explanations for the evidences, but they would probably weaken in the 
>light of Greenleaf's comprehensive study. So convincing were the findings
>that one historian who reviewed the professor's work was quoted as saying
>this: "Although I am not a Christian, I cannot deny the evidence for the 
>resurrection." If you're not already familiar with this study, I'm sure you 
>can find a detailed analysis of it in any large library containing books on
>religion/anthropology.

Of course...all this is circular reasoning, as you are using
evidence in the Bible to support the Bible...the only place Jesus
figures in any importance during that century...outside the Bible,
there is NO evidence that there (1) was an empty tomb (2) that 500
people saw the Resurrected (3) that the lives of the disciples were
any different before or after ... (4) and (5) are characteristics of
any growing church supported by fanatics...most fanatics are willing
to die, and most are willing to spend a major part of their time
soliciting converts, of which there will always be plenty of
(humankind is (usually) dissatisfied with its position, and is
usually willing to do/try many things to change it)  Heck, Buddhism
grew as fast as Xianity, and same with Shinto, Hindu, and a hell of
a lot of other religions...nope, I see nothing new here, except yet
another circular argument!

>
>In my mind, the TRUE Christian plants the seeds of love and acceptance
>in others -- and lets God take care of the rest. We should not be overly-
>critical of each others ideas, because this shows a lack of respect for
>the persons involved. As a true Christian, I feel that I must learn to 
>love others regardless of their beliefs. In fact, I must accept each one as
>a personality created in God's image and for whom Christ died. I can't think 
>of a single instance in the Bible where Jesus forced himself on anyone. 
>Furthermore, He never preached down to anyone or belittled their personhood. 
>He was firm and frank, and He did it all in humility and love... we could
>learn *alot* from His actions if we'd just take that direction.
>

Au contraire!  Jesus used fear as a tool to gain his way...which I
would define as forcing himself on me...he threatened nonbelievers
with eternal hellfire (and no, its not meant to be
metaphorical...read your own Bible, please)...this is a major flaw
in his character, that, as God, he could sentence anyone to this
kind of eternal torture!  And don't give me any CR*P about "you do
it to yourself"...if you saw an act of brutality being done, and had
the ability to stop it (which an omnipotent God would certainly
have) would not your own code of morals require you to stop it, as
an Xian...than how can you believe your God would not do the same?
Im sorry, but I really don't see anything new in Jesus' message (it
was all said 500 years before him by Buddha, and probably before
Buddha by someone else), nor do I see anything Godlike about his
characteristics, and to accept the word of a book that is based on
the ASSUMPTION that he is God seems to be a little suspect
reasoning!

>Maggie
>--
> Chelmsford, Mass.   {yale,uw-beaver,decvax!wanginst}!apollo!maggie

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