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From: kfl%mx.lcs.mit.edu@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: mod.politics
Subject: Pacifism
Message-ID: <12242817658.3.MCGREW@RED.RUTGERS.EDU>
Date: Mon, 29-Sep-86 11:25:59 EDT
Article-I.D.: RED.12242817658.3.MCGREW
Posted: Mon Sep 29 11:25:59 1986
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    From: Hibbert.pa@Xerox.COM

    I disagree.  All the non-pacificist could do would be to kill
    pacifists.

  Isn't that enough?

    The point that pacifism makes is that if each of us refuses to use
    violence, even on threat of violence to ourselves, then none of us
    can be a tool for enslaving others.

  What about the threat of violence to others?  What if they drag you
off to a slave labor camp and say to you that if you don't start
working that your wife and kids (standing next to you) will be shot?
I think you underestimate the power of terror.  The only reasonable
response to the threat of violence is the threat of retaliation.  The
only reasonable response to actual violence is actual retaliation,
perhaps after a few warnings.

    This leads to a question I have for people might be worried about
    a soviet attack on the US: What would they do once they had
    conquered the government?  If we all refused to go along with the
    government, it would be powerless.

  If they have all the guns, and all the sources of wealth, it is a
moot point whether the people would be starved or shot into
submission.  Probably starved, it's cheaper.
  I am very dubious about Poland.  I don't know what "freedom together
with jail" could mean.  Have you ever been in jail?  It is horrible
even in this country.  It is easy to sit back in our easy chairs and
glibly talk about how one can simply choose to disregard mere material
discomforts like imprisonment, starvation, torture, and death.  If
someone can be both happy and sane under such circumstances, more
power to him.  But I am very skeptical.  And I am prepared to defend
myself rather than surrender to such tyrants.  I have heard of no
freedom in Poland or in any communist country.
                                                              ...Keith

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