Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!caip!pyrnj!mirror!cca!g-rh From: g-rh@cca.UUCP (Richard Harter) Newsgroups: net.cse Subject: Re: Role of computer science Message-ID: <10411@cca.UUCP> Date: Mon, 6-Oct-86 05:23:50 EDT Article-I.D.: cca.10411 Posted: Mon Oct 6 05:23:50 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Oct-86 02:18:34 EDT Reply-To: g-rh@cca.UUCP (Richard Harter) Organization: Computer Corp. of America, Cambridge Lines: 82 I (Richard Harter) wrote: RH: In fact, academia tends to do the student a disservice, by teaching RH: the values of academia as the only relevant values. In fact, RH: academia has strange notions about what is important for programmers. RH: Most programmers need not know anything about writing compilers, for RH: example. And Barry Stein responded: BS: Oh lord, anti-intellectualism, a great American tradition, makes the BS: uneducated feel like they're worth something too (you are, stop being BS: so defensive...) Soothing noises. If it makes you feel better, go ahead and be defensive. I don't mind. Take two aspirin and it'll all go away in the morning. BS: Most *anythings* don't need to know about *whatever*. BS: BS: Only educated people do, they are the minority, so you are correct. BS: Don't worry, most people go through compiler courses without learning BS: anything anyhow so they are safe by your standards. More soothing noises. My goodness, we are upset aren't we. Will it help if I point out that your reaction is a massive non-sequitor? No? I didn't think so. BS: If a person does not wish to be educated, they have every right not to BS: be. Those of us enslaved to academic values and pursuits do not sneer BS: at such folks, in fact, they are interesting topics for research BS: studies... BS: BS: I have no doubt the world is filled with mediocre souls who need to be BS: parsimonious about their endeavors lest their little brains get filled BS: up, which I presume is some sort of painful condition. I strongly BS: suggest such mean folks shy away from the halls of academia so the BS: rest of us may be free to endeavor in our frantic pursuit to be BS: knowledgeable about everything in our fields and elsewhere. Sigh! Pathetic, positively pathetic. I love your rhetoric. BS: I also think that the claim that "the values of academia as the only BS: relevant values" are the primary obsession of those in academia is BS: quaint, did you get that from a Shavian novel? I doubt it is from any BS: real-world experiences which you claim insight into, but it is BS: amusing, I wish it were true sometimes. Shavian novel!!? To tell the truth I will unabashedly admit that not only have I not read any of Shaw's novels, I don't even know of any. I have, however, read and attended a number of his excellent plays. Pray recommend some of them (his novels) and I will sample them posthaste. I also think that 'the claim that "the values of academia as the only relevant values" are the primary obsession of those in academia' is quaint. And where did *you* get that from? Not from anything I wrote, my friend. Now I may not be an expert of Shavian novels, but I have been in the business for twenty five years, so I suppose I do have some real-world experiences of one sort and another -- including persuading frustrated would-be compiler writers that no, we don't need a home grown data analysis language complete with an LALR grammar, and, yes, they are going to have to learn about FFT's and data analysis and they'd better do it damn quick and get on with the job that they were hired to do. But it doesn't bother me -- six months with the knout straightens them out, and if that won't do it a summer of Gilligan's Island reruns will :-). Seriously -- I will contend that most computer science students will be hired as and expect to be employed as software engineers and that the training that they receive as computer science students is not entirely appropriate. -- Richard Harter, SMDS Inc. [Disclaimers not permitted by company policy.] For Cheryl :-)