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From: jj@alice.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.news,net.news.group
Subject: Re: Comments on Reorganization
Message-ID: <6110@alice.uUCp>
Date: Thu, 25-Sep-86 14:59:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: alice.6110
Posted: Thu Sep 25 14:59:54 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 26-Sep-86 21:08:15 EDT
References: <4558@gatech.CSNET> <158@rayssd.UUCP> <923@gilbbs.UUCP>, <230@hao.UUCP>
Organization: New Jersey State Farm for the Terminally Bewildered
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Greg:
	Reorganizing the net is indeed a large and mostly unrewarding 
task.  Still, the question of WHY reorganize has been continuously begged.

1)  Duplicate articles from broken sites still account for at least 10% of
the group volume in the groups that I read.  If you want to reduce traffic,
fix the problem of infinitely replicating duplicates!  If all you want
is to reduce traffic, merely fixing (or isolating) brokenness will
do that, without stifling anyone, anywhere, anytime.

2)  There are some groups out of control.  "Let's move them to talk
to that they go away" isn't a solution, it doesn't educate
the users, and it provides nothing but an incentive for
stupid, ignorant, or deliberatly rude users to go squat in some
other sandbox!

3)  Yeah, you've reorganized, but you still can't do anything about
all the deliberate misusers.  USENET has been pathologically
unwilling to police itself, and the new organization doesn't help
a bit, it only provides an incentive to change the groups that
misbehavior happens in.  Until USENET can also police itself,
and NOT via the method of flaming-until-the-other-guy-turns-blue-at-the-fingertips,
traffic and misbehavior will grow monotonicly.

I find the comments about "wobegon" quite interesting, in the light of the
fact that I was on the "reorganization" list for quite a while, and was
witness to several folk's arguement that wobegon was "a stupid group,
with a stupid reason for existance", "an example of what's wrong
with USENET" and the like, because of the nature of its genesis.
I did drop out of the group when it became obvious to the most
blind that the real work was happening via some other path, and
that the purpose of the discussion mailinglist was to allow
the rest to be convinced.

Anyhow, having seen this discussion, I cannot credit the removal of the group
to "mere accident".

Reorganization a camel like USENET is a big job, NOT because it's hard intrinsicly,
but because so many people want so many different things.  When doing
any project of that sort, a strong sense of proportion is more than important,
it is required.  The current reorganization structure seems to me to show
a strong lack of proportion, and therein lies my objection.

Until the problems are identified, isolated, and fixed, no number of
highly stressful attempts at bandaiding wwill suffice.
-- 
GODS OF NETNEWS BEWARE, THE TEDDY BEARS WILL HAVE THEIR PICNIC!
"Hear the Tolling of the Bells, Iron Bells"
(Ask not for whom the bell tolls, the bell tolls for news.)
(ihnp4;allegra;research)!alice!jj