Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!columbia!rutgers!husc6!husc4!hadeishi From: hadeishi@husc4.harvard.edu (mitsuharu hadeishi) Newsgroups: sci.physics Subject: Re: Mind Reading Message-ID: <411@husc6.HARVARD.EDU> Date: Wed, 15-Oct-86 22:26:04 EDT Article-I.D.: husc6.411 Posted: Wed Oct 15 22:26:04 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 16-Oct-86 02:06:53 EDT References: <217@sri-arpa.ARPA> <3598@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> <1858@mmintl.UUCP> <364@husc6.HARVARD.EDU> <403@husc6.HARVARD.EDU> Sender: news@husc6.HARVARD.EDU Reply-To: hadeishi@husc4.UUCP (mitsuharu hadeishi) Organization: Harvard Science Center Lines: 109 Summary: In article <403@husc6.HARVARD.EDU> greg@endor.harvard.edu (Greg) writes: > . . . >Your research is unscientific. You might protest that scientific reasoning >is only a Western bias, so I'll explain myself. By unscientific I mean >inconclusive, imprecise, uncontrolled, and unconvincing. I never claimed to be presenting scientific data. However, you clearly did not read my posting carefully. I have a lot more anecdotal personal experience which could convince even you, Greg. If you could suspend your disbelief. However I have little hope for that. I simply did not feel that it would be appropriate to post such personal experience publicly; I simply wanted to put out a couple representative examples. >>For example, a few weeks ago I called >>her, but she wasn't home, so I left a message. A couple hours later .>I suddenly had a burst of ecstasy...I thought to myself, >>"maybe she's just got home and got my message."... >> >> That not good enough for you? How about the time we had >>the same dream, but she was in San Diego and I was in LA? > >It's very easy to take all of the experiences in your life, select the >coincidences, and then declare that they are more than coincidences. It's also >easy to edit your own memory to have it fit your preconceived notions of the >world. Recollections of dreams and feeling are especially easy to change. You are becoming rather offensive here, Greg. Stating the obvious and then accusing me of overlooking it is a rather weak counter-argument. Of course the above possibility has occurred to me, however after three years of this kind of "coincidence" occurring regularly (one particular series of events I calculated as having approximately a 1 in 10^15 chance of occurring randomly. This experience was SO strange that I will keep it to myself at the risk of sounding like a lunatic. It was not specifically related to telepathy, however it was completely outside the realm of known physics) I had to finally concede to myself that something definitely unexpected was going on. Believe me, it came as a surprise to find that these effects were REAL, and they could happen to ME. Of course, I hadn't made the a priori assumption (which you seem to have made) that these phenomena are impossible, therefore forcing the conclusion that every single experience was a "coincidence." (I would venture to give you a little advice if you are to have a fruitful career in academic discourse. First of all, it is rather bad practice to always patronize your interlocutor, even if you feel (as you always do, I've noticed) that he is at an intellectual disadvantage (which you seem to find true of anyone who disagrees with you.) You may not be able to overcome this character fault (since you obviously emulate W. Buckley), however, since you are the type (folks, this is a private message between Greg and I so you may skip this paragraph if you wish; however, I feel like publicly criticizing Greg's netiquette today, sorry) who seems to feel that you have already come to a precise understanding of what is fundamentally the correct way to view the Universe and how to explore it intellectually. Unfortunately, Greg, since I happen to consider myself your intellectual equal (or better), (you may disagree with this assessment :-) and I also have seen your reasoning process, I have to let you know that you process of thinking, although quite valid, is certainly not the Be All and End All. If your interlocutor does not lay out all of his evidence and all of his arguments, perhaps it is not because he is confused and thinking vaguely, but that there is something more to his position than you perceive. Just . . . maybe. In my case, in fact, there is. Quite a lot more, and you most likely, unfortunately, will never be able to appreciate this.) >> Yes, I am a senior in physics (a pretty good physics student, >>too, in my opinion :-), and I realize that there is no plausible >>mechanism that could have transmitted this kind of information. > >Boy, you must be pretty smart. No comment :-). > >If you feel that there is no plausible mechanism, or in other words, no >plausible explanation (for a mechanism is no more than that), then your >theories are inherently implausible. > >What you really mean is that there is no *known* mechanism for what you >describe. In that case, the phenomenon you have discovered would be the >biggest enigma in all of physics. It should be presented as the great >counterexample in all physics courses. Other paradoxes in physics are >presented in this fashion, so why not yours? Maybe there is something wrong >with your experiments... Yes, I mean to imply that these kind of experiences could provide source material for a new intellectual investigation into a particular phenomenon, as electrical and magnetic phenomena did in the 19th century. However, obviously since these kinds of phenomena are difficult to reproduce (since they involve very complex biological systems) they certainly could not be presented as "the great counterexample". Few people can even admit to their plausibility unless they have also come into contact with similar phenomena. In my case it seems to happen very frequently, particularly with my girlfriend, to such a degree that I cannot just toss it off as my own wishful thinking. (In fact, it has rather serious consequences in that I have to be responsible for the well-being of not only myself but of her as well. This is something that you would not understand, Greg, perhaps you shall never understand. I hope, however, that you will someday have such a connection with someone.) I do not know why this happens to us. It may be related to my training in the Japanese martial arts. -Mitsu