Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!lll-crg!lll-lcc!qantel!ihnp4!houxm!mtuxo!mtune!mtunf!mtx5c!mtx5d!mtx5a!mat From: mat@mtx5a.UUCP (m.terribile) Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,net.legal,soc.singles Subject: Re: Re: Commission on Pornography -- reply to GWSmith Message-ID: <1560@mtx5a.UUCP> Date: Thu, 18-Sep-86 23:53:28 EDT Article-I.D.: mtx5a.1560 Posted: Thu Sep 18 23:53:28 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 20-Sep-86 21:10:51 EDT References: <1487@mtx5a.UUCP> <15487@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <1506@mtx5a.UUCP> <1570@felix.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Middletown, NJ 07748-4801. Lines: 114 Xref: mnetor talk.politics.misc:203 net.legal:3627 soc.singles:16 > This was a long article, but I'd like to pick out and address a couple of > points. > > >Yes, if indeed it were the only case. On the other hand, how do you really > >ensure the continued mental health of someone who has sex in front of a > >camera, and can find that film turning up anywhere, any time. Even years > >later, this film could damage a career or a family. And how do you decide > >where to draw the line in the work rules for this material? > > At the present time, I believe that only adults over 18 can legally appear in > a porn film. I always thought this was because we assume that someone of that > age is mature enough to take responsibility for their actions. If that is not > true, then we have other, much larger problems. When someone believes in their > convictions and is honest about themselves up front, there are no "skeletons in > the closet" that can be dragged out later, and hence no embarrassments. First of all, in New York State, the age limit is 16, not 18. A little too young. Secondly, it is claimed that in making films for certain audiences, *not* pedophilic in the usual sense, there is a great deal of pressure to use women (and men) who are younger. Because of loose recordkeeping require- ments and because the ``stars'' are usually paid in cash, it's hard for the State labor authorities or child welfare authorities to keep tabs on this properly. Also, many people who make just a couple of explicit sex films (including Sylvester Stallone, by the way) do so to keep from starving. It's quick money, cash that you con't have to report to the taxman, and a couple of films will pay the rent and buy you hot dogs and crackers for a few weeks. The ``informed, rational, adult decision'' view isn't quite appropriate. If, as Oleg K. has said, people who sell their bodies in the street are victms of society, can we rule out the possibility that people who sell their bodies on film are likewise victims? In the face of testimony by people who have made such films under these circumstances, trying to stay n school or find a legitimate job, the ``stars'' might well be said to be victims of circumstances, if not society. The technologies of photography, cinematography, and electronic video have increased the hazards by creating a permanent record that cannot be explained away the way a drawing or painting could be. > [regarding porn magazines as opposed to "outdoor" type magazines] > >On the other hand, legitimate sports publications stress safety measures and > >risks, and report deaths and injuries that occur. They are dedicated to the > >welfare of their subscribers (thereby keeping *live* subscribers) rather than > >dedicated to the *addiction* of their subscribers (thereby sucking more in). > > In more than one of the "skin" magazines I have read, there are write-in sec- > tions that DO answer questions, address disease protection and so forth, dispel- > ling myths and performing a definite educational function. Some of the most > comprehensive articles about "safe sex" (regarding AIDS) that I have seen ap- > peared in Hustler magazine. I guess that those type of magazines are the only > forum where sexual situations can be discussed in *frank terms*. And to the extent that these things are done, and to the extent that the advice is sound (my guess is that it is) the publications are serving a useful purpose to their subscribers. But not all the remarks are directed at Hustler (although some may be) and not all the remarks are directed at magazines. What about the ``XXX Sex Dreams of a Sorority Girl XXX'' (the name is one I just made up, folks ...) films that get run in the ``adult theaters''. Do they have write-in sections on sex with medically sound advice? > >>... You don't need porn for this, just buy a copy of "The Joy of Sex". > >> (Unless sex manuals are ipso facto porn?). > > > >Does ``The Joy Of Sex'' demonstrate whippings that cause bleeding, or provide > >photographic depictions of people being tortured by having their penises, > >labia, or nipples pierced? Does it depict acts that are difficult, degrading, > >or harmful? Does it encourage non-consensual acts, or acts under duress? > This is not what I think of when I think of pornography. I have not been ex- > posed to this type of material, although I'm sure it exists for those willing > to spend the effort to find it. This seems to be a good place to reiterate my > request to help break the connection between sex and violence. One way to aid > this campaign is to not use the two terms together. Try to replace the stan- > dard phrase "sex AND violence", with "sex OR violence" wherever possible. It > seems like such a small thing, but I don't know of a better way to start. > This seems like a good place to point out that, although there is a sorry lack of reliable social science evidence, and (according to Adam R.) reliable studies asking simplistic questions of this complex phenomenon (yes, Adam, I'm adding a little to what you said ...) would not indicate direct links for most of the population, clearly there *is* a subpopulation for whom sexual pleasure is enhanced by violence or by degrading others. And materials of the sort which (as you say) do not interest you *do* affect them when sex and violence are juxtaposed (in slasher flicks) or combined (in certain types of pornography). Because the interaction of the two affects people (victims) of these individuals, and because patterns of victimization are not always simple and evident (look at columns by Ann Landers, look at articles on this newsgroup about dogs and cleaning the house) the simple remedy of ``well, leave him'' does not protect these victims adequately. Further, where force or threat of bodily harm is involved, that remedy is simply not available. By the way, one of the few types of direct research that the Commission *did* undertake was a survey of materials available at ``adult bookstores''. The methods included taking the title of every nth current magazine or book that had any sexual reference on the cover. Various materials were also purchase, and other materials siezed by law enforcement officials were provided. I'm sure that the places examined were the ``worst'' in terms of the strength of material. On the other hand, within several major cities, these materials were avalable to anyone who would walk into a store which advertised itself as an adult bookstore. They are not hard to get. -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) mtx5b!mat (Please mail to mtx5b!mat, NOT mtx5a! mat, or to mtx5a!mtx5b!mat) (mtx5b!mole-end!mat will also reach me) ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.