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From: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Catholics & Sex
Message-ID: <1011@rti-sel.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 26-Sep-86 15:00:18 EDT
Article-I.D.: rti-sel.1011
Posted: Fri Sep 26 15:00:18 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 30-Sep-86 00:34:04 EDT
References: <170@wheaton> <90000016@ism780>
Reply-To: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly)
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, NC
Lines: 50

In article <90000016@ism780> jimb@ism780 writes:

>I'll beg the question, but contend your premises, which seem to think there
>is *A* Catholic viewpoint on all of the above.

This was an interesting posting for me, since I'm a former Catholic. I
left the Church in 1965 due to my inability to handle its
authoritarianism, and I've often wondered how today's young Catholics
manage to reconcile what the Church TELLS them to do with what they
KNOW they must do. Right now, I'm sort of a wavering agnostic. If I
start attending a church, it will more for the fellowship than
anything else (I'm leaning toward Unitarianism).
 
>                ...  The last time I asked a nun if the Pope was
>aware of the view that the Church is not a top-down hierarchial organization
>(as she had just been discussing), she replied that she hadn't heard from
>His Holiness lately and didn't know what his personal opinion might be.)

However, isn't it still true that the Church hierarchy can decide to
deny you communion or otherwise punish you for straying from the fold?
That at least in theory it's against the rules to refuse to bow the
neck to the dictates of the Holy Mother Church? That's how things were
when I left the Church, and it always seemed hypocritical to me to
return to Catholicism with the thought, "I have my beliefs, and I'll
follow them; the dictates of the Church have no power over me, and if
my parish priest disagrees I'll just find another congregation." It's
always been difficult for me to understand how American Catholics
reconcile this.
 
>Even if a Pope *had* made a statement *ex cathedra*, the modern Catholic
>theological viewpoint is that individual conscience has primacy, answerable
>only and directly to God.  (They do get a mite sticky if you cause "public
>scandal" by disagreeing, but that has nothing to do with private belief.)

That's interesting if it's true, because it means the Church is truly
no longer like the Church I left.
 
>The Pope can say anything he wants about birth control, oral sex,
>homosexuals, pre-marital interdigitation, and everyone can say,
>"That's nice.  Bugger off." and still remain a Catholic in good
>standing.

This is VERY hard for me to believe. Or understand. I did, however,
take a theology course at a Catholic college in 1970 taught by a radical 
Dutch theologian who used to talk about getting the old f_rts out of the
Vatican. :-) At any rate, thanks for a posting that showed me how at
least some Catholics deal with their liberal views in a Church that's
ruled by a conservative hierarchy.

                             -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly