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From: cc@locus.ucla.edu (Oleg "Kill the bastards" Kiselev)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Being an asshole
Message-ID: <1761@curly.ucla-cs.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 26-Sep-86 06:44:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: curly.1761
Posted: Fri Sep 26 06:44:40 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 30-Sep-86 08:23:05 EDT
References: <6012@lll-crg.ARpA> <1592@curly.ucla-cs.ARPA> <6317@lll-crg.ARpA>
Reply-To: oac6.oleg@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU (Oleg "Kill the bastards" Kiselev)
Distribution: net
Organization: Right down the hall, on your left (UCLA Computer Club)
Lines: 93
Keywords: Huh?
Summary: Oleg chats back at Matt Nolan....

In article <6317@lll-crg.ARpA> nolan@lll-crg.UUCP (Matt Nolan) writes:
>... Read Feymen's book, he's one of the modern idols of
>physicist, the guy is a PhD. [More info on the author]

Insufficient information. Give the book title and publisher. It sounds
amusing. Not that physicists are known to have the most successful
sex lives....

> .... Again (sigh), my point was, I observe
>behavior that people engage in to get sex, I don't like the behavior, I won't
>behave that way to get sex, please advise me on alternative behaviors.

Sigh.... If you had seen me with my current SO, you would probably conclude
that I treat her abusively. That includes verbal "abuse", frequent domineering
behaviour, commanding instead of asking, etc. And both your impression of
the nature of relationship and of its history would be wrong.

The fact is, the "rough treatment" is only a surface phenomenon. Let me 
assure you: if I were to be just rude and abusive to my SO, she would
not have been with me for 2.5 years. She TOLERATES my behaviour because
she loves me; she "forgives" my imperfections because there is more to me
and to our relationship that just "abuse". I tolerate her faults because
I am rather attached to her and like spending time with her.

[Conclusion: to treat a woman like shit, first get her to fall madly in 
love with you, then you can get away with it]

>>Even the sorority/frat types are not necessarily into power/submission trips!
>	Seems to me the whole sorority/frat system is set up & joined by people
>who want a steady supply of people who will want to have sex with them. 

I have known (and "gone out" with) sorority girls. The "meat market" image is
correct in many cases, but by no means reflects ALL sororities. Can't say
much about frats -- never had any respect for them.

>... Being human
>am I not supposed to feel there is something special about the mating process?
>Or is it just another chemical fix I feel the need to fulfill, like eating
>and sleeping?

Both. Humans need the "sex fix" -- but mastrubation can provide that. Humans
need the "emotional fix" that comes from sex with other humans (sorry, never
tried animals ;-). "Emotional fix" can be obtained from close friendships.
The mixture of the two is the sensation that I usually look for in sexual
encounters. 

Also, sex is not merely "mating". Sex is a very intimate form of communication
and like other advanced forms of communication set us apart from animals.
That is why humans enjoy and seek sex not for procreation only.

> since you brought it up
>> EVERYONE wants to get laid { etc }
>	What are some examples of sexual experiences a normal person would
>want to have?  Under what circumstances can I desire to have sex with someone,
>random encouter, trying to develop SOship or otherwise without feeling I am 
>being degrading to some female because I am attracted to her sexually?

How many women are you attracted to? I estimate the number for me is 30%+
of women between ages of 14 and 48. That is, those are the women I would
not mind knowing better and more intimately. But am I REALLY sexually
attracted to them? 

To me, a major part of sexual attraction is chemical -- pheromons (mainly) 
and hormones. I am not REALLY sexually turned on by a woman unless I can
"smell" her attitude toward me. If I am attracted to a woman, I assume I
project the similar smell of "interest". The mutual attraction results in
an intensive exchange of pheromones and the rise in desire to have sex.
I could say that I seek the "pheromone high" more than sex itself (although 
the two never come apart).

So, desire to have sex with a person you are attracted to and who is attracted
to you when both (all? ;-) of you are interested in being intimate.
In my experience one-sided sex (with a disinterested partner, or having sex
when you are not enthusiastic but your partner really wants to fuck) is very
dissapointing and is less enjoyable than mastrubation. (That does not cover
sex with friends to the same extend...)

>>I would not want to be involved with women who take such shit.
>
> 	Obviously then you have experiences where you have been nice to
>women and they didn't treat you like shit.  Good, that gives me hope.

Look, we all go through a period in our lives when we feel very much alone
and abandoned. I have almost dropped out of college in my freshman year
because I was so lonely and depressed. By sheer accident I met a woman who
got my ego up and had provided the needed emotional "fix" in a brief but
intense relationship. She was the first of the string of relationships
in which I was looking for a friend and was finding a lover.

And THAT is the key! Look for friends -- and some of them will become your
lovers. And never look for friends with sex in mind.

					Oleg Kiselev