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From: apak@oddjob.UUCP (apak)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: My problems with rape (or why my views are so different from
Message-ID: <1506@oddjob.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 2-Oct-86 03:14:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: oddjob.1506
Posted: Thu Oct  2 03:14:40 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 4-Oct-86 05:33:32 EDT
References: <1904@mtgzy.UUCP> <8608050927.AA09486@cory.Berkeley.EDU>
Reply-To: apak@oddjob.UUCP (apak)
Organization: Aesthetes and Poets Against Karate
Lines: 38
Xref: watmath soc.women:186 soc.singles:278

In article <1086@kontron.UUCP> cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>> In article <169@omssw1.UUCP> hays@omssw1.UUCP (Kirk Hays) writes:
>> >Yes.  Here's a dogmatic idea:
>> >	Societies that require individuals to be responsible for their
>> >	own defense have less violence and less crime than societies
>> >	(like ours) that strip the individual of these abilities.
>> This suggestion would be more plausible if the United States had
>> much lower rates of crime and violence than the other western countries,
>> all of which expect the authorities,  rather than the individual,
>> to be responsible for defence and control.  In fact, its rates are
>> by far higher than those in (to take the example where I happen to
>> live) Canada, where it would be virtually unthinkable for a homeowner
>> to have a handgun.
>Groan!  For the hundredth time, "You are comparing apples & oranges
>when you compare the U.S. and Canada, or the U.S. and any European
>country."  There are substantial differences in ethnic makeup, legal
>systems (Canada actually sends violent criminals to jail, for example),
>weather, and population densities.
    You are - as you so vehemently assert - a free individual. You don't
*have* to spend your life posting second-hand non sequiturs courtesy of the
N.R.A.. Try some independent rational thought for once. You list some factors
which could conceivably affect the crime rates in different countries. They
vary not only from country to country but (for example) from state to state
within the U.S.. If they really are significant you ought to be able to 
demonstrate this simply by comparing U.S. states. If they explain the 
difference in murder rates between the U.S. and civilised countries, you
ought to be able to show this statistically (a crude method would be to
try and pair U.S. states and foreign countries with similar ethnicity/legal
system/weather/pop. density; best would be a proper factor analysis). 
   On the other hand, if you just want to use irrelevancies to prevent 
rational debate, you're doing just fine. 
 

-- 
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