Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bellcore!petrus!magic!joevax!dnelson@joevax.UUCP (Dorothy Nelson) From: dnelson@joevax.UUCP (Dorothy Nelson) Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.singles Subject: Re: Treat 'em like dirt boys...[you do an' you'l be singin soprano!] Message-ID: <305@joevax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 8-Oct-86 15:00:47 EDT Article-I.D.: joevax.305 Posted: Wed Oct 8 15:00:47 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Oct-86 05:11:08 EDT References: <54@ritcv.UUCP> Sender: dnelson@joevax.UUCP Distribution: net Organization: Bell Communications Research Inc., Morristown, NJ Lines: 77 Keywords: Longish, but well worth ev'ry burnt eye socket. Xref: watmath soc.women:271 soc.singles:393 > O.k. I've had just about enough of this bulls**t, I wish some > WOMEN (not men) would explain to me why they must be treated > like dirt for them to like you back? Yes it does sound stupid No, it isn't *that* stupid. *This* is stupid: "I-hit-my-head-on-the- tay-bull!!!!!" "Ooowhhh, shut up!" "There's a piece of brain lodged in the cupboard!!" "Soorrree..." *Ahem* Sorry. I really am taking you seriously. > but unfortunately no matter where I travel that is all I find. > No it is not just me, anybody I know that has a girlfriend doesn't > treat them like they deserve and yet they still stay with him. > Perplexing eh ? Here's the phenomenon as I see it. There's a very healthy reaction humans have called, "Picking partners who feel good about themselves." But society, which sears the lil field mice and voles and spiders with asphalt in the making of I-98, has bent this perfectly nice reaction. Feeling good about yourself has classicly been interpreted as not giving a shit for anyone else. (NOTE to would-be flamers... I don't like this attitude). The indifferent male has always been presented as a romantic figure whereas the male who cares is a foot licking woos who has dinner at Mama's on Fridays. Similarly, the "hard to get" female is the most luscious, whereas the female who is nice is portrayed as a clinging vine. Binary modes, pure and simple. Some of this is hard-wired already in our brains-- and it's difficult to extract it. This attitude is abetted with respect to the male because it's more hip for man to not show his feelings, or care. The real facts are(I think): There are some nice guys who fit the stereotype, and others who feel good about themselves, and all sorts of in-betweens. There will be women who judge by stereotypes, and this is the kind of woman you were bitching about. You don't even *want* to get involved with this kind of person unless you wanna be a "TV shrink" (like me) and rewire her hardware. 'Course, there *are* women who do try to look at the whole picture... and they *may* find the man less attractive if he thinks he's the lowest thing since... since... since Liberace. Conversely, there are assholes who *do* feel good about themselves, and others who are just letting out the shit they feel inside. The vice versa with respect to gender happens, too. > > I guess this is where the saying "Nice guys finish last." came > from. Oh, now, now. You want a nice bedtime story? Here's a goodie... I saw two assholes (male and female) duking it out in a 10 month relationship (still going strong). They live together for about two weeks, Person A throws crockery at Person B, they break up(claiming that it's over for good this time, of course). After 3 days they get back together. Two weeks go by, Person B humiliates Person A in public by throwing a cold beer in the face and storming out. They break up (claiming that it's over for good this time, of course). They sense NOTHING CYCLICAL about this. That's the best definition of hell I can come up with. On the flip side, I'm involved with a guy who is nice as all git-out, who loves life and a good laugh. We have fun. Don't despair. Many women are not assholes. Go out there, talk to them, and see what *they* think. I'm curious, if you've traveled extensively, why you *haven't* gotten an opinion from a woman about this. Very strange. THE KEY QUESTION HERE IS NOT: What's happening to these awful women that they like to be abused? THE KEY QUESTION HERE *IS*: What's happening to *all* of us? > Dazed Confused, etc... > Sean@ritcv > > (You can't live with them and you can't live without them.) Men. Can't live with them, can't shoot them in the back of the neck and have a talented taxidermist stuff the pe... wait a minnit... I *can* do that, can't I? (*MOO* *HA* *HA*) Scuse me. I'm off to buy me a Luger. ;-) --cosmique muffin (dorothy) SWTelevision Shrink, seeks Patient with neurosis... prefer nymphomania and/or an aero-wombat fetish