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From: de@moscom.UUCP (Dave Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.women
Subject: Re: who drives the bus nonissue?
Message-ID: <756@moscom.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 24-Sep-86 13:24:29 EDT
Article-I.D.: moscom.756
Posted: Wed Sep 24 13:24:29 1986
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> Antiquated -- Indeed. Hasidic practice is quite antiquated, and seems
> to have lost the train of progressive social thought that has
> developed in both the Jewish mainstream and that of other cultures,
> particularly with respect to gender roles, conduct of the home and
> school, permitted literature and cultural activities, etc.

So?  Does this mean that change is always right?  Would you have supported the
Hellinized Jews in Maccabean times because it was progressive?   What you are
doing here is making a value judgement that your view of Judaism is better 
than that of the Hassidim.  Mainstream Judaism in the United States seems to
me to be a way station to assimilation.  Is sending kids to a Jewish school
antiquated?  Mark me down as antique.  Is saying kiddush on Friday antiquated?
I am even more antique.

> Sexist -- (If I have to argue *this* in detail, I don't know why I
> bother to write for this audience.) Hasidism is firmly based on sexism
> and archaic gender roles.
      ^^^^^^^ -- here we go value judgement again.  Compare the Jewish 
      treatment of women with that of Islam, or in the world outside of
      the "West", and you will find that a model created 3000 years ago
      is still highly progessive.

> Illegal -- Yup. If the Hasidim were not a religious group, but a
> social club or even a non-religious voluntary community, their
> practice of institutionalized sexism in employment, job assignment,
> and opportunity would leave them quite vulnerable to a suit for sex
> discrimination. 

But, it is not illegal, it is their life style.  The only one complaining
about Hasidim are the non-Orthodox Jews who are embarrassed and goyim who
have to deal with them when the Hasidim have to deal with the general world.


               rochester \
David Esan                | moscom ! de
                    ritcv/
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Why are the Amish picturesque, and the Hassidim embarassing?
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