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From: stuart@BMS-AT.UUCP (Stuart D. Gathman)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Shove over and make room for God!
Message-ID: <209@BMS-AT.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 21-Sep-86 00:47:41 EDT
Article-I.D.: BMS-AT.209
Posted: Sun Sep 21 00:47:41 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 23-Sep-86 00:17:03 EDT
References: <5160@decwrl.DEC.COM> <3566@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU> <194@BMS-AT.UUCP> <20852@styx.UUCP>
Distribution: na
Organization: Business Management Systems, Inc., Fairfax, VA
Lines: 52
Summary: What meaning?

In article <20852@styx.UUCP>, mcb@styx.UUCP (Michael C. Berch) writes:

> The most likely state of affairs is neither of the above, but instead
> that God does not exist, and everything is NOT meaningless. In which case 
> Pascal's advice is not useful.

This discussion of "meaning" is becoming a little meaningless. :-)
What kind of "meaning" are we talking about?  Here are some suggestions:

A. A meaningful life is working towards a goal.  Some goals:
   1. Maximize pleasure.
   2. Maximize wealth.
   3. Maximize knowledge.
   4. All of the above.  Solomon succeded at all three and it didn't
	satisfy.  It wouldn't satisfy me either.
   5. Maximize my human potential.
   6. Maximize the well-being of humanity as a whole.
   7. Maximize the well-being of all living creatures.
   8. All of 5 - 7.  This sounds a lot better, like maybe I could
	be worth something if I succeded.  However, I know myself better
	than to imagine that I am really that good on my own.

B. A meaningful life results in ceasing to exist.  (Whatever turns you on.)

C. Life is meaningful because it is improving: we are all evolving and
	becoming better and better.

My thoughts:

	'A' and 'C' represent striving for 'Good'.  'B' represents 
loss of all hope of becoming 'Good'.  The whole concept of evolution
is interesting: we are evolving to higher and higher states.  This
implies some 'high state' toward which we are moving.  There must be
some ideal to which we achieve closer and closer appoximations.  Where
did this ideal come from?  Why is this ideal 'better' than the way
we are now?  If you define 'higher state' as that toward which we
are evolving, I will find such a definition highly circular and
unsatisfying.  (9. Maximize satisfaction? :-)  This is like saying:
"We have arrived at our destination.  Our destination is where we are now."
This is true but doesn't *mean* anything!  (To me, at least.)

	Are all you meaningful types out there (HASA & SASA included)
in agreement with me on this: we are striving (or long) to become "better"?
Perhaps we disagree primarily on the best (!?) way to accomplish this.

It is consistent to deny that anything can be "better" or "worse", but
simply is.  This is my definition of existentialism.

P.S.  I noticed that distribution for this discussion is 'na'.  Does
the rest of the world not want to hear our drivel?
-- 
Stuart D. Gathman	<..!seismo!{vrdxhq|dgis}!BMS-AT!stuart>